Family Historian User Group

Can anyone offer some advice?

I am trying to find information about my Grandfather, Clifford Lincoln. According to his army service records he was born on 24/1/1910 in Leeds, and his father was called Arthur Lincoln. According to his death certificate he was born on 24/1/1912 in Leeds. According to his marriage certificate he was 34 in November 1945 and his father was Arthur Lincoln. According to his POW records he was born on 24/1/1910 in Leeds, his father was called Arthur Lincoln and his mother's maiden name was Elsworth.

I have bought every birth certificate for any Clifford Lincoln within 10 years of when he was born. The only one that was close (in North Bierley) didn't match father or mother, and died in America. I have also bought every birth certificate for Clifford Elsworth in the same period, also to no avail. I have searched the 1911 census without luck, and even asked the Leeds registry office if they could find anything, without any luck. I can find no record of any marriage between an Arthur Lincoln and anyone called Elsworth, the only information I have on Arthur is that he lived in Buslingthorpe Green, Leeds at some point in the 1940s (from the army records). My Grandparents divorced in 1962, and my Nan never spoke of him as he had become an abusive drunk. My Mother died in 2001, my Uncle committed suicide in 1982 and my Nan passed away on her 79th birthday in 2006 (which started me looking into my family tree), so I have no family to shed any light on him. I work full-time and so cannot travel to Leeds to look locally (even if I knew where to look). I am stuck.

Does anyone have any suggestions on where I could look next as I have reached the limit of my family research knowledge.

Heeelpp

Steve


ID:4587

What provider are you using for you searches ?

Steve,

The 1911 Census might throw some light on where the family were living and who was born where and should show your grandfather if he was really born in 1910. If you can get to the National Archives at Kew you can view the images free of charge and I think they are open on Saturdays.

Possibilities are that his parents weren't married in England or didn't marry; also that your grandfather's birth was not registered - not so uncommon as you might think, especially if his parents weren't married.

If you find the family in the 1911 Census then you might be able to track their movements using Post Office Directories and Rate Books.

Good luck,

Gerry

Remember that the DOB for Army records is often wrong especially if they are under-age when they join up. My Grandfather knocked 2 years of his birth year. So this means at least pre-war the army did not ask for birth certificates.

So he could have presumably given a false name and place of birth. Not much help, but could you get your Grandparents Divorce details?

Just in case this throws up any possible clues. Perhaps the Family as a whole had a change of Name at some point?

Thank you for the responses.

Hi Steve, I have a worldwide subscription for Ancestry, which is where I do the majority of searches. I did have a subscription to FindMyPast but didn't continue with it as I had to buy tokens for the 1911 census anyway.

Hi Gerry, I searched the 1911 census online, but no Clifford Lincoln. As I live in the north of Scotland, I don't get much opportunity to get to Kew. Ironic that I used to live down the road from it but now that I am researching my tree I am over 500 miles away. If I do get down there I will see what I can find. If there was no marriage, and the birth wasn't registered, then I guess I may be stuck until the 1921 census. [frown]

Hi Jane, I think my Grandfather joined the army in 1943, which would make him between 31 and 33 based on the differing information. My grandparents married in 1945, while he was in the army, according to the certificate she was 18 and he was 34. I have every indexed certificate for a Clifford Lincoln between 1900 and 1920 with no luck. Everything points to him coming from Leeds, and specifying Buslingthorpe Green for his father's address seems to at least imply a knowledge of the area. I do have a photocopy of the divorce papers of my Grandparents, but they provide no information about his family.

Great site by the way.

1911 Census.... Have you seen the Clifford Elsworth aged 2 months, living in Rawdon with James and Ada Anderson. He is their nephew - no sign of his mother. It says he was born in Hawkesworth, which is in Leeds. There does not appear to be a birth certificate in the index for him. He would have been born in Jan 1911.

It might be possible that he was later 'adopted' by Arthur Lincoln, or that Arthur was really the father? Unfortunately there was no formal adoption at that time so there would probably not be any records.

Anne

There is a Hawsworth in Leeds (I went to school there and I'm not sure there was much there in 1911) but I think this is the Hawksworth near Guiseley. I think his birth is indexed on both Yorkshire BMD and FreeBMD.

Yorkshire BMD Clifford Elsworth 1911 Yeadon, Leeds (YEAD/64/294) and FreeBMD Clifford A Elsworth Wharfedale 1911 Q1 9a 148

Wharfedale district covered both Yeadon and Hawksworth in 1911 but the records for Yeadon are listed as Leeds in YorkshireBMD

Hi Anne/Andrew,

Thanks for your response. I do have the birth certificate for that Clifford Elsworth...

Born: 30th Jan 1911, Hawksworth Wharfedale
Father: John William Elsworth (Asylum Attendant)
Mother: Annie Elsworth formerly Anderson

It also says in column 10 (name entered after registration)...
Clifford Anderson (on certificate of naming)

This ties in with the one on the 1911 census, but is 6 days out for date of birth of my Grandfather (24th Jan has been consistent even if the year hasn't).

I guess it is a possibility.

Steve

How frustrating for you! I guess you might have to consider the possiblity that he was using a different forename than the one he was registered with. How you would ever find that out without trying every Lincoln baby born in the time period I have no idea.[frown]

Anne

I would look for other researchers, who might have either done one-name studies on the surnames you are looking for, or someone whose research is in the same area, who might notice your grandfather's information in the course of their own work. In many cases records can be missed if names are mis-transcribed, and guessing the wrong transcription is not a trivial task.

As Anne said, tracking down every Lincoln baby is a daunting task, as is tracking down every baby in the right area and time frame, so why not ask for help from someone who is already doing that task?

Another idea is to post a query on a query board. I've had great results from Curious Fox, and have made some long-term email friendships that way.

Good luck!

Hi Steve,
The certificate that you have (30th Jan) may possibly be the correct one. I think there are various reasons why dates may differ and if you get a chance perhaps read that great reference by Mark D Herber called Ancestral Trails, most libraries would hopefully have a copy. I noted where he discusses 'Missing Entries' under births he says that some folks would report a later date of birth to avoid late registration penalties. The births and deaths act of 1874 provided penalties for late registration (more than 42 days after a birth). So one possibility is that he may well have been told he was born on the 24th of Jan but his registration was done late.
Bit of a long shot but who knows.

Best of luck with the research

Richard

Thanks jmurphy,

I took your advice and posted an entry on curious fox. Although I have nothing concrete, it did help me to look at the information I already had, and find one possibility. See below.

Thanks Richard,

I had previously come across the 6 weeks deadline, as one of my Nan's brothers had the wrong date of birth on his birth certificate. His daughter told me that they had added a week to his true DOB to avoid getting fined. I now have this theory:

The BC for Clifford Elsworth gives a DOB as 30/1/1911, registered on 9/3/1911. This is within the six weeks, but his actually birth date of 24/1 would have been outside the six weeks. Clifford's father is given as John William Elsworth, and mother Annie Elsworth formerly Anderson. In column 10(Name entered after registration) it says 'Clifford Anderson (on certificate of naming)'. Which seems to imply that his name was changed to his mother's maiden name afterwards. On the 1911 census Clifford Elsworth is living with Aunt and Uncle James and Ada Anderson. My current theory (albeit clutching at straws) is that JW found out that Clifford wasn't his son, and disowned him. He was sent to live with his mother's brother, and at some time within his first year had his name changed to Anderson. Arthur Lincoln was either the biological father, or the person that Annie ended up with. I could of course be barking up the wrong tree completely.

I guess I am unlikely to prove or disprove this theory, but hopefully when the 1921 census comes out in 10 years time [frown], I might find some more answers.

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice.

Steve

Steve,

The census is useful for showing family groups, to be sure. However, one of the things I like to do is examine other evidence before I look at the census. In the US, for instance, there are city directories which sometimes have listings in street address order showing the names of the head of household. And for one of my husband's Devon families, I was able to find a 'missing' family member listed in a directory.

So my advice would be, don't wait for the 1921 census, but collect and analyse whatever evidence you can find now. I like to think of potential matching records as 'candidates' (as in job candidates) -- some might be a good fit, and some might not.

For instance, if your focus family was in the US (especially for New England), for some areas you might be able to collect several years of listings for James Anderson, with the later ones showing the nephew as he came of age and was employed. Historical newspapers can also provide many clues, if available. In the US, if the person is of a certain age, we have the WWI and WWII draft registrations (obviously not much help in this case, since your focus person is born in 1910). But take a moment to review what record collections are available to you, and ask what records might have been created for a person born in 1910, just to make sure you haven't missed something.

I also highly recommend posing specific research questions for yourself, and undergoing a periodic review of the records you have already collected. In one case, my question of the day was 'when did my husband's grandfather's family move back to England?' -- and the answer was given explicitly in a record I already had in my files. [oops]

Early in my research, I bought the program GenSmarts, which examines a GEDCOM file and makes suggestions about what to look for next. It has several deficiencies (especially in the way it deals with GEDCOM files) which we've discussed elsewhere in the forum. But if you can find a trial copy (sometimes it appears on the cover discs of the magazine Your Family History -- a trial is also available via download from the GenSmarts website) it is worth taking a look at to see if you've missed something. Sometimes the GenSmarts estimates and suggestions are rubbish, but even that can be useful if you log the reason why you think it's a stupid suggestion -- 'This suggestion stinks because it's asking me to look at this record collection on Ancestry for [person]'s marriage, and the collection doesn't cover the year that [person] got married.' It can make you state your assumptions 'out loud' which can lead to 'wait a minute, that can't be right' revelations.

I think my problem is solved, thanks to a minimal fee to a professional researcher, restoring my tarnished faith in professional genealogists.

After paying an initial consultation fee, the researcher based in Yorkshire, also could not find a birth certificate for Clifford Lincoln other than the ones I had looked at and discounted. She did, however, identify a possible (if unlikely) candidate, Clifford Lythe. At first I was doubtful as the surname was different, but looking closer I found that Clifford's Father was called Arthur, his Mother's maiden name was Elsworth, and there was no sign of a death certificate under the name Clifford Lythe.

Clifford Lythe was married in 1932. I ordered his birth and marriage certificates which show that the date of birth matches my Grandfather exactly, and the occupation was the same. He had a son, also in 1932, and then seemed to vanish. I managed to contact family of his Son through Genes Reunited, who said that the Son didn't know Clifford as he had been brought up by a Step-Father from an early age.

Everything fits with Clifford Lythe and Clifford Lincoln being the same person. The family don't seem to want to help, and I am not pestering them. As the Son is nearly 80 now, so they may not want to upset him. If they ever get in contact, I may get more conclusive proof one way or another, but what started as an unlikely theory now has too many coincidences for me not to believe it.

I would like to thank everyone for their help.

Steve