Family Historian User Group

May I be allowed to make an appeal for help, please? I’m searching for my x2 great grandfather William Atherton and wife, Elizabeth. Despite a two-year trawl I have yet to find anything definite.

I have his son’s marriage (25 August 1874, Wigan, Lancs) - Peter Atherton (born 1849 Wigan, Lancs) to Ann Williams (born 1855 Kidderminster, Worcs) where Peter’s father is given as William (collier), and the address as 79 Platt Lane, Wigan.

The nearest I have got is a William Atherton (born 1823 Orrell, Lancs with a marriage in 1843 (St Davids, Liverpool) to Elizabeth Whitney. Various censuses with a William Atherton and a Elizabeth show a son, Peter, with a birth of about 1849.

Crucially, I have yet to find Peter’s birth certificate – there are an awful lot of ‘Peter Athertons’ in the Wigan area! so cannot confirm whether the above William is definitely his father.

If any of the very experienced FHUG genealogists could perhaps give me some pointers for further research to help narrow down Peter’s birth certificate I’d be very grateful.

I use Ancestry and have searched FreeBMD, LancsBMD, Atherton One-Name, IGI etc etc.

Thank you for your consideration,

Brian

ID:6390

Searching on the Lancashire OPC website for Peter Atherton baptised within 5 years of 1849 this seems a likely match:

Baptisms: 4 Feb 1849 St John the Evangelist, Abram, Lancashire, England
Peter Atherton - son of William Atherton & Elizabeth
Abode: Abram
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: John J Dixon
Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1897, Page 45, Entry 359
Source: LDS Film 1885642

In the 1851 census the family are in Platt Lane (same as on the marriage certificate you quoted) and Peter aged 2 is recorded as being born in Abram, so it seems quite a likely match to me. Reference: Class: HO107; Piece: 2199; Folio: 169; Page: 31. In this census with Peter:
William is 28, a Miner and from Orrell
Elizabeth is 27, from Blackrod
Son John is 4, from Wigan.

It seems likely that this is the Peter Atherton whose birth was registered in the Hindley sub-district in 1849, mother's maiden name Collier. Found on the Lancashire BMD site here. Hindley is very close to Abram.

Thank you so much, Nick, for the speedy response: it is much appreciated.

I have previously seen the Platt Lane census connections, but hadn't found the baptism of 4 Feb 1849, so this is another lead.

Unless I have missed something the problem with an 'Atherton/Elizabeth Collier' marriage is that I have found only one marriage recorded: Bolton in 1877 (Atherton ONS - The Atherton Archive of Marriages for England and Wales) - the spouse being John Winstanley Atherton not Peter.

[confused]

Brian

My apology... should read...

the spouse being John Winstanley Atherton not WILLIAM.

This family is sending me crackers!

Brian

I think this is almost certainly the correct baptism and birth reference, based on the fact that it is the correct name (Peter), correct father's name, correct year, matching address in census. You should obtain the birth certificate - there is a possibility that the Collier maiden name for the mother is a transcription error on the Lancashire BMD site as that was the father's occupation. I can't see any likely marriages for them if her maiden name really was Collier. Of course it may be that they didn't marry, it does happen.

Nick

I don't want to take up anymore of your valuable time with this, Nick, and I thank you for your efforts.

However, today I've spoken with my sister, who tells me she has a birth cert for a Peter Atherton that she'd discounted as being wrong as she can't find a marriage with the mother's maiden name:

Born: [?] 30 January 1849 [though could read 12 or 20]
Peter Atherton
Father: William
Mother: Elizabeth Atherton formerly Collier
Father's occupation: Collier
Informant etc: Mother, Abram
Registered: 12 March 1849
District: Wigan Union

Thanks once again.

Brian

Don't forget that just because you can't find a marriage, doesn't mean that the baptism is incorrect.
The GRO indexes may be incorrect or incomplete, and records for some areas are also incomplete.
Local record offices, or OPC (online Parish Clerk) as well as sites like UKBMD.org offer searches that are closer to the originl sourch, but these are also incomplete, so worth checking back every so often.

brian1950 said:
However, today I've spoken with my sister, who tells me she has a birth cert for a Peter Atherton that she'd discounted as being wrong as she can't find a marriage with the mother's maiden name:

I don't understand the logic of discounting this birth. Unless I've misunderstood, your logic appears to be:
1) This is a birth of Peter Atherton that exactly matches the person I'm looking for, 2) I have a copy of the birth certificate, 3) I can't find a marriage for the parents and therefore this isn't the correct Peter Atherton.

However, the birth certificate (and matching baptism) proves (within reasonable doubt) that there was a child called Peter Atherton son of William Atherton and Elizabeth - they don't cease to have existed just because you can't find a marriage: the birth certificate shows they did!

For various reasons people didn't always marry and just lived as common-law spouses. Maybe one of them was briefly married to someone else and their partner disappeared - divorce wasn't easy or common back then.

And it is also possible that the marriage wasn't correctly registered or is missing from the indexes as John suggested.

I think you need to start to work on the 1841 census and baptisms to find William and Elizabeth before they married and don't let the missing marriage stop you from progressing.

Nick

Points well made, both.

Until I contacted my sister today, I didn't know she had sent for and received the 1849 Peter Atherton (Collier) birth cert. Certainly if I'd known about it I would have considered it a probable match along your lines of thought... she's had it since 2009!

Grrr...

One thing I do know for certain is that if I hadn't been using FH (from v3) to record my researches I would have been in a right pickle. It can't praise this software enough to family and friends - and the wonderful community 'out there' who are ever ready to lend assistance and advice.

My sister doesn't use any genealogy software, just pencil and paper. Enough said!

Brian

Would definitely say that COLLIER is definitely correct for his mother's Surname.

If you check 1861 Census living at 79 Platt Lane is the Atherton Family, shown are 5 Children, 3 of whom show up on Lancashire BMD site as having Mother COLLIER, 2 don't seem to show but could be that either not registered or not completely transcribed yet.

Thank you TimTreeby for the response and especially for the attachment for Peter, Ann and Richard.

I now feel I can push on with my researches into my paternal side, however this will involve going beyond the 1837 registrations - something I am unfamiliar with.

Delving into parish registers is something I don't have much experience of other than at the local office, and I'm wondering if my Ancestry worldwide membership is up the job.

Are there any other paid-for - or free! - search sites that would be better suited to my needs regarding parish registrations? I am aware of the Lancs free sites such as LancsBMD, but these don't go beyond 1837.

Many thanks to all,

Brian

The Knowledge Base lists Useful Research Websites some of which include pre-1837 Parish Records.

With regards to LocalBMD Sites, they will only have post 1837 Registration Info, as they are created from the Local BMD registers of which a copy was sent to the GRO, who then created their own index.

For finding out what may be available i find that http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/ is very useful.

Using that i then saw that there was a one name study for ATHERTON http://atherton182.tribalpages.com/trib ... 9&ver=2278

And they do have yours's showing, but the have also been unable as yet to of found a marriage for William Atherton to Elizabeth Collier http://atherton182.tribalpages.com/fami ... ier-Family

Would suggest you contact the person running the ONS and he should be able to help you fill in any blanks you have.

Cont from prev post, A quick search on the lancashire OPC site, has a marriage of William Melling to Elizabeth Collier. The Atherton ONS site has William Atherton's parents as Peter Atherton and Martha Melling, This suggests that William may be base child of Martha.
As i said in previous post if you contact the person running the ONS, will give you plenty of info and advice on how to continue your searches.