1911 census puzzle

Dave41 · Post by **Dave41** » 03 Aug 2013 12:49

An aunt of mine Susannah Gray was born on 18 August 1911 (I have the birth cert.), yet appears on the 1911 census,aged 10 months! her parents (my grandparents) had five older children, one of whom is shown on the census as 1 year old.

Does anyone have any ideas on how this might have come about?

ID:7028

TimTreeby · Post by **TimTreeby** » 03 Aug 2013 13:39

My first thought would be that for some reason they did not register her when she was born and only got round to it 12 months later and therfore not to pay a fine they just changed the year of birth.

If i have found the correct family (Timothy + Sara Jane Gray living in Walton,Liverpool) on the 1911 Census then there are other anomalys on there as well.

Timothy Gray has signed the schedule but his name has been crossed of as head of household, Shows as 6 Children born, 4 still alive and 2 died but, schedule shows six named children living in the household.

Post by **tatewise** » 03 Aug 2013 14:10

This may be explained as follows, but needs a little more research.

On the 1911 Census original image, under the Children born alive... heading it says:
Alive: 6
Living: 4
Died: 2

Alfred, Robert, Timothy, Elizabeth are probably the 4 living children.
I suspect George & Susannah are sadly the two who have died, and should NOT have been entered on the Census.

There are potential records for the birth and death of George:
George GRAY born Q2 1909 in West Derby, Lancashire Vol: 8B Page: 601
George GRAY died Q2 1911 in West Derby, Lancashire Vol: 8B Page: 208 Age: 0

I have not yet found similar records for Susannah, but I suspect she was twin sister of George, and also died young probably from the same cause.
Perhaps the mother Sarah Jane has entered the name incorrectly, or did not register the birth and death.
It is quite common for a name to be re-used on the birth of the next child.

It seems that Sarah Jane GRAY had mistakenly entered her husband Timothy GRAY on the Census as a Marine Fireman (at sea) Cunard S.S.Co.
This entry is crossed out as it appears he died at sea in August 1892:

GRAY, T BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea Box: 0005

So Sarah Jane seemingly entered three family members who had died, perhaps thinking that all those details were required.

I hope that points you in the right direction.

Dave41 · Post by **Dave41** » 03 Aug 2013 14:20

Well spotted Tim. I hadn't noticed the anomaly with the number of living children. You could be right about them back-dating the date of birth. I can't come up with any other explanation.

As for Timothy being crossed off the census, he was a seaman, and in the occupation column it says that he was at sea. I suspect that my grandmother might have signed the schedule on his behalf. Very strange.

Dave41 · Post by **Dave41** » 03 Aug 2013 14:28

Mike,
Thanks for your helpful post. It came through as I was responding to Tim. You could well be right about the children's deaths. I will look into it and try to obtain certificates.

I do know that my grandfather Timothy didn't die until 1948, so the record you found must be the wrong one. But it does seem as though he was at sea at the time of the census.

Post by **tatewise** » 03 Aug 2013 14:37

You are correct about your grandfather.
I found his marriage to Sarah Jane Manly in Q2 1877 West Derby.
I also found their 1900 Census in West Derby with children Alfred & Robert.
So clearly he did not die in 1892 - sorry about that mistake.

Post by **LornaCraig** » 03 Aug 2013 14:42

tatewise said:
You are correct about your grandfather.
I found his marriage to Sarah Jane Manly in Q2 1877 West Derby.
I also found their 1900 Census in West Derby with children Alfred & Robert.
So clearly he did not die in 1892 - sorry about that mistake.

No, the 1911 census shows they had been married 16 years, so married around 1895.
Timothy Gray married Sarah Jane Manly Q1 1895, West Derby.

Dave41 · Post by **Dave41** » 03 Aug 2013 14:49

You are correct Lorna. They married in 1895.

Mike, where can I find the information about deaths at sea? I've looked on Ancestry, and the Genealogist, but couldn't find anything.

Post by **tatewise** » 03 Aug 2013 15:21

Sorry both, in my haste I transcribed Sarah Jane's Date of Birth instead of Marriage.

The Death At Sea records in the standard Birth Search in FindMyPast.co.uk.
I cannot find anything similar in Ancestry or FreeBMD.

I think I have solved the case of the first Susannah Gray, whose Birth and Death records are:
Susannah GRAY born Q4 1904 in West Derby, Lancashire Vol: 8B Page: 321
Susannah GRAY died Q3 1905 in West Derby, Lancashire Vol: 8B Page: 224 Age: 0

Dave41 · Post by **Dave41** » 03 Aug 2013 15:42

Thanks Mike
Much appreciated.

TimTreeby · Post by **TimTreeby** » 03 Aug 2013 17:02

Just to throw other potential names into mix there is a
George Gray b Q1 1898 West Derby
with death of Q3 1899 West Deby aged 1

This I suspect is yours as from Lancashire OPC have found two baptisms with parents as Timothy and Sarah Jane.

So possible that the Susaanah and George that shows on 1911 are for dead children but age is given as their age at Death.

So the Susannah that Mike had found is correct but the George might not be, but until you get certificates you cannot be sure.

Dave41 · Post by **Dave41** » 03 Aug 2013 17:42

Thanks Tim

That's very interesting. I knew about Robert, but the George born in 1898 is a real surprise.

I do know that they had another son called George Washington Gray(named after Timothy's mother Julia Washington), who was born in 1916 and died in 1917. That must mean that they lost three sons, all called George. That must have been devastating. I have ordered the death certificate found by Mike, so hopefully I'll know more when it arrives.
Thanks to everyone for your help.

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