* Military Records post WW1
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Military Records post WW1
Hi all
I'm still fairly new to all this so please bear with me!
Trying to find military records of a couple of my relatives. Been using FH with Find My Past and have tried National Archives on occasion.
One was a Robert Collinson, my great uncle, who died in Iraq in 1929 as a corporal with the RAF. I have his service record showing when he joined, where he was posted etc, but I want to know how he died i.e killed in action, natural causes, accident, etc and where he is buried - RAF Hinaidi, or back home in Liverpool. Tried National Archives and googling RAF historical society but can't seem to find a source that would show me that level of detail.
Similarly, another great uncle who was in WW2 - Harry Liversidge. Royal Signals and I think an Armoured regiment. He was in the reserves just before the war too, I believe. He survived the war as I remember him from the 1970s and early 80s
Any ideas?
Thanks for any tips.
I'm still fairly new to all this so please bear with me!
Trying to find military records of a couple of my relatives. Been using FH with Find My Past and have tried National Archives on occasion.
One was a Robert Collinson, my great uncle, who died in Iraq in 1929 as a corporal with the RAF. I have his service record showing when he joined, where he was posted etc, but I want to know how he died i.e killed in action, natural causes, accident, etc and where he is buried - RAF Hinaidi, or back home in Liverpool. Tried National Archives and googling RAF historical society but can't seem to find a source that would show me that level of detail.
Similarly, another great uncle who was in WW2 - Harry Liversidge. Royal Signals and I think an Armoured regiment. He was in the reserves just before the war too, I believe. He survived the war as I remember him from the 1970s and early 80s
Any ideas?
Thanks for any tips.
Re: Military Records post WW1
Try the Commonwealth War Graves Comission website (www.cwgc.org)
If they were killed in action, they should have an entry. CWGC provides details of their death and next of kin, and an image of their actual headstone if they had one.
If they survived the war, their service records are still witheld, and only available to next of kin or with their permission. You have to apply to see them. It cost me £30 for my father’s records, but they were a long time coming once I applied for them. (Sorry, but I can’t remember who I had to apply to)
You could try google
If they were killed in action, they should have an entry. CWGC provides details of their death and next of kin, and an image of their actual headstone if they had one.
If they survived the war, their service records are still witheld, and only available to next of kin or with their permission. You have to apply to see them. It cost me £30 for my father’s records, but they were a long time coming once I applied for them. (Sorry, but I can’t remember who I had to apply to)
You could try google
Mike Loney
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
- AdrianBruce
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Service Records from post-1920-ish (that's the cutoff for the Army, the Navy and RAF are sort of similar) are available only from the Ministry of Defence - see https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... ce-records. So that's the way to go for Harry.
As for Robert... Oh. That's interesting... I am 99.9% certain that there will be no Commonwealth War Graves Commission grave or other records - they apply only to WW1 and WW2 plus a few years after. Apparently there is a cemetery at RAF Hinaidi - see https://military.wikia.org/wiki/RAF_Hinaidi, but where you could find any records, I don't know. Perhaps the RAF Museum could point you in the right direction??? I am slightly surprised that there's no indication in the service papers about the cause of death but that's just me guessing... Otherwise I'm a bit stumped - you need someone more expert in the RAF's data sources than I suspect you'll find here - maybe the RAF Museum could again suggest where to look.
As for Robert... Oh. That's interesting... I am 99.9% certain that there will be no Commonwealth War Graves Commission grave or other records - they apply only to WW1 and WW2 plus a few years after. Apparently there is a cemetery at RAF Hinaidi - see https://military.wikia.org/wiki/RAF_Hinaidi, but where you could find any records, I don't know. Perhaps the RAF Museum could point you in the right direction??? I am slightly surprised that there's no indication in the service papers about the cause of death but that's just me guessing... Otherwise I'm a bit stumped - you need someone more expert in the RAF's data sources than I suspect you'll find here - maybe the RAF Museum could again suggest where to look.
Adrian
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Thank you.
Yes got the CWGC record for my other great uncle killed in 1917 but was struggling with the others. I came to the same conclusion - that more recent records are unavailable unless you are close next of kin. At least you confirmed it, so I'm grateful!
Thanks again
Dave
Yes got the CWGC record for my other great uncle killed in 1917 but was struggling with the others. I came to the same conclusion - that more recent records are unavailable unless you are close next of kin. At least you confirmed it, so I'm grateful!
Thanks again
Dave
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Thank you Adrian - very helpful.
I'll give both those suggestions a try. I did consider the RAF museum but thought there may be another place to look before approaching them. I'll drop them a line.
Many thanks again.
Regards,
Dave
I'll give both those suggestions a try. I did consider the RAF museum but thought there may be another place to look before approaching them. I'll drop them a line.
Many thanks again.
Regards,
Dave
- tatewise
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Re: Military Records post WW1
On FindMyPast there is an entry for Robert S Collinson as follows which should lead to a Death Certificate.
It seems such Armed Forces entries do NOT appear in the GRO online search.
There are also probate details for Robert Sylvester Collinson dated 30 Dec 1929 with linked person Mary Eliza Collinson.
On FamilySearch that death is recorded as Robert Sylvester Collinson death 25 Aug 1929 and probate in Liverpool 30 Dec 1929 beneficiaries Charles James Collinson & Mary Eliza Collinson.
It seems such Armed Forces entries do NOT appear in the GRO online search.
Code: Select all
Source Gro Army Death Indices (1881 To 1955)
Archive reference DARM
War -
Recordset British Armed Forces And Overseas Deaths And Burials
First name(s) Robert S
Sex Male
Last name Collinson
Death year 1929
Birth year 1899
Type Armed Forces
Country Iraq
Place Hinaidi
Page 269
Age 30
Birth date ? ? 1899
Registration year -
Branch of service -
Decoration -
Records year range 1929
Line number 133
Archive General Register Office
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, UK None
On FamilySearch that death is recorded as Robert Sylvester Collinson death 25 Aug 1929 and probate in Liverpool 30 Dec 1929 beneficiaries Charles James Collinson & Mary Eliza Collinson.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
- AdrianBruce
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Thanks Mike - I was halfway round Asda when it occurred to me that I hadn't thought of death certificates. In my defence, I find the whole range of military certificates way too complex and fragmented - indeed, I understand that not all of them are indexed even. (I think one of the best write-ups is on the FIBIS site, by the way). I read and understand and then, within a month, because there are so many bits, I forget.
If the index to the DCs says Hinaidi, then I would tend to imagine that he is buried there - that's the usual method. But that's not proof...
If the index to the DCs says Hinaidi, then I would tend to imagine that he is buried there - that's the usual method. But that's not proof...
Adrian
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Re: Military Records post WW1
According to Wikipedia the register of those buried at Hinaidi is held by the RAF Habbaniya Association. (Operations were transferred to RAF Habbaniya after 1938). Unfortunately the link to the Association (http://www.habbaniya.org) doesn't work!!
The CWG site does have a section on Habbaniya and says there are 173 identified casualties but they all appear to be war dead. https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-ceme ... -cemetery/
The CWG site does have a section on Habbaniya and says there are 173 identified casualties but they all appear to be war dead. https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-ceme ... -cemetery/
Lorna
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Google search for RAF Habbaniya Association has lots of hits such as:
https://www.forcesreunited.co.uk/units/ ... ssociation that has searchable records including some for Robert Collinson and R S Collinson during inter-war years.
https://www.forcesreunited.co.uk/units/ ... ssociation that has searchable records including some for Robert Collinson and R S Collinson during inter-war years.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Military Records post WW1
There's a site "aircrew remembered" http://www.aircrewremembered.com/ which has a large amount of information of fliers of all types. A quick look doesn't have a Robert Collinson, but you might find something to link with him. In my experience the site administrators are very friendly and helpful, so they might be able to point you in the right direction if you get in contact.
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Wow - thank you all so much Mike, Adrian, Lorna, Martin.
I'd heard of Forces Reunited years ago but never occurred to me to try that. And the RAF Habbaniya site - priceless.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks,
Dave
I'd heard of Forces Reunited years ago but never occurred to me to try that. And the RAF Habbaniya site - priceless.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks,
Dave
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Hi all
Just to let you know that the RAF Museum came up trumps. They replied within a couple of days and sent me the link to his record with an image of his casualty card. Turns out he drowned, but doesn't say exactly what happened. Guess we'll never know, but I'm pleased I got this far.
Thanks again for all your suggestions
Dave
Just to let you know that the RAF Museum came up trumps. They replied within a couple of days and sent me the link to his record with an image of his casualty card. Turns out he drowned, but doesn't say exactly what happened. Guess we'll never know, but I'm pleased I got this far.
Thanks again for all your suggestions
Dave
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Quick update - I found a website - stevebusterjohnson.com - which has a searchable database of the Peace Cemetery at RAF Hinaidi and sure enough he's there. Gives his plot number, row number and grave number.
- AdrianBruce
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Glad it worked out for you, Dave.
A few neurons fired when you said Casualty Cards and Mr Google turned up this link https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/d ... cards.aspx Although the page is titled "First World War", the text does say: "The records start at about 1915 (although earlier losses were recorded retrospectively) and run up to approximately 1928. " So it seems like your chap just crept into the range (because 1929 is approximately 1928, after all!).
Worth knowing for others...
A few neurons fired when you said Casualty Cards and Mr Google turned up this link https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/d ... cards.aspx Although the page is titled "First World War", the text does say: "The records start at about 1915 (although earlier losses were recorded retrospectively) and run up to approximately 1928. " So it seems like your chap just crept into the range (because 1929 is approximately 1928, after all!).
Worth knowing for others...
Adrian
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Thank you Adrian - yes, could be very useful for others. I'm finding "approximate" covers a multitude of sins in genealogy...
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Re: Military Records post WW1
Robert Silvester Collinson drowned whilst at RAF Hinaidi
I have a photo of his sister Florence's grave in Anfield cemetery see:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/217 ... e-phillips
Regards,
Phil
I have a photo of his sister Florence's grave in Anfield cemetery see:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/217 ... e-phillips
Regards,
Phil