* Naturalization records

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gwilym'smum
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Naturalization records

Post by gwilym'smum » 29 Sep 2019 06:43

Hi
Does anyone know if there are any on line records for immigrants who have become British Subjects please. I am looking at a German citizen who came to Britain in the 1850s and on consequent censuses he is recorded as naturalized British Subject. Presumably his British wife would not then become German as another family, who I believe came later and did not become British, became subject to enemy alien restrictions in the 1st WW.
Ann
Researching Mayer, Parr/Parr, Simcock, Beech and all related families


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gwilym'smum
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Re: Naturalization records

Post by gwilym'smum » 29 Sep 2019 09:22

Thank you Helen.
Ann
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E Wilcock
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Re: Naturalization records

Post by E Wilcock » 19 Nov 2019 18:50

Have just seen this. I too have been working with these records. And even in the 1930s women lost their nationality on marriage and acquired that of their husband.

I think that when a German naturalised here , his wife and children were naturalised too. It is very annoying as the certificates dont always give the names of wives and children and dont give the birth names of the women.

In both world wars the formerly British wives of Germans were treated as enemy aliens. In previous research on WW1 I had an example of a woman being treated as an enemy alien while her British born son was serving at the front in the British army.

In WW2 I have a British born wife born in 1911. She married a German in 1938 and thus automatically became German - She has an Enemy Alien's card 1939 and she was naturalised British in April 1941, presumably to regain her British nationality.

It makes one realise how women were not regarded as equal only a generation ago. The nationality and status of women in the 1930s has just cropped up again, with the children and grandchildren of women who were refugees from Nazi Germany claiming that it no longer conforms to EU law to consider only the male line when determining German nationality.

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mjashby
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Re: Naturalization records

Post by mjashby » 19 Nov 2019 20:22

I think it's important to recognise that the marriage of a British female to a German citizen did not result, historically, in her losing British Citizenship under British Law, but rather in her acquiring alternative German/Reich Citizenship on marriage under German/Reich Law until 1953. However, German women did automatically lose their German Citizenship (until 1949) if they married 'foreigners' even if that meant they then became Stateless. See the following:

"German citizenship can be acquired or lost through marriage. These rules have changed over time and are affected by a number of factors.

Acquisition of German citizenship:

- Prior to April 1953: A foreign woman acquired the German citizenship through marriage to a German citizen husband.
- April 1953 until 1969: A foreign woman, who married a German Citizen husband, had a right to acquire German citizenship. If the marriage occurred between 24 August 1957 and 1969 the foreign woman could acquire the German citizenship through a declaration.
- Since 1970: The husband or wife of a German citizen could be naturalised by residence in Germany for a period of 3 years.

Loss of German citizenship:

- Prior to 23 May 1949: a German woman lost her German Citizenship through marriage to a foreigner, even if she would otherwise be stateless
- 23 May 1949 to March 1953: marriage to a foreign citizen only caused loss of German citizenship if the woman was not left stateless
- Since April 1954: marriage to a foreign citizen does not affect the nationality of the spouse. Where a party marries in a country other than the country of their personal law, then the marriage must be recognised by both countries. There are a number of factors that need to be respected, such as being of appropriate age and avoiding obstacles that would render this marriage invalid, such as being already married and being related to each other."

Source: http://www.passportia.org/citizenship/germany/marriage/

I believe that it's important to make these distinctions, as it goes someway to recognising why a woman married to a German, but living in Great Britain at the outbreak of hostilities, might have been considered a potential threat; and therefore being treated as an 'enemy alien', having married and thereby having knowingly acquired/accepted 'German' citizenship. Please note, I make no judgement on the rights or wrongs of whatever decisions were taken historically. - It's just that facts are facts; and judgements we might make now, is not the same as living with events in our ancestors time. Then again, are the decisions our ancestors had to make in a time of War that much different to the judgements/actions we expect the authorities to pursue now about who in society might present a security threat to the UK?

Mervyn

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LornaCraig
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Re: Naturalization records

Post by LornaCraig » 19 Nov 2019 21:25

I think it's important to recognise that the marriage of a British female to a German citizen did not result, historically, in her losing British Citizenship under British Law, but rather in her acquiring alternative German/Reich Citizenship on marriage under German/Reich Law until 1953
I remember going over some of this ground in another topic: Naturalisation (16350)
On re-reading it I think we eventually agreed that a woman who married an 'alien' did lose her British nationality when the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914 came into force.
Lorna

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gwilym'smum
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Re: Naturalization records

Post by gwilym'smum » 20 Nov 2019 07:59

Hi
Having researched a family who married German immigrants and their experiences during the 1st WW I found the same as Lorna, that they were no longer regarded as English or Irish in one case. One lady was sent to prison for staying with her sister.
Ann
Researching Mayer, Parr/Parr, Simcock, Beech and all related families

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Paulinelp
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Re: Naturalization records

Post by Paulinelp » 20 Nov 2019 09:09

Just to add to the mix:
My German great-grandparents were non-naturalised, living in London with both children born here. Their son, my grandfather, fought for Britain during the first world war and his sister's German fiance was interned at Knockaloe. After the war said fiance was deported and the couple married in Switzerland prior to travelling to his home village, where they told everyone that they had been married before the war and he had been made to take her with him. Their sons were both killed in WW2, but his remaining family have told me that she retained her British nationality and had dual nationality throughout WW2 with resulting visits from the gestapo. Shortly before Great-grandfather's death in 1924 they moved to live with their daughter in Germany and after his death Great-grandmother had to apply for re-admission, still trying to establish whether she had lost her German nationality of if this was something of a lower scale as the document is not digitised and I haven't been back to that part of Germany since I learned of its existence. My brother considers himself English and served in the RAF, I consider myself to be part German. Nationality is not a clear cut thing!

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