* Childrens' gender

[rodit]

I have just found an ancestor in the 1911 census who had 4 children, 1 living in 1911 and 3 died. The living one is the only one I can track through the censuses - she was born in 1870. How should I record the other 2? They must have been born and died between censuses.
I would like to record them so that I can recall them for future research, but don't know how to input them as their genders and ages are unknown at this stage.
Thanks

Roger

[tatewise]

Roger, I have moved this to the Research Forum where it fits better.

From the 1911 Census you know how long the parents were married.
So this gives you a start date for the Child Births.
From the Census records over those decades you have an idea where they lived.
You know the Child's Surname.

So you just have to search Birth and Death records for Surname, with Birth say 1890 +/-20yrs and Death 1890 +/-20yrs in the appropriate district.

FindMyPast seems to support that mode of search.
Not sure about Ancestry.
You could also use http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ FreeBMD.

[LornaCraig]

Sometimes it is possible to guess fairly accurately where a 'missing' child child fitted into the family, for example if there is a four year gap between two suriving children in a family where children were born about every two years. However in your case with only one surviving child that won't work. In a case like this I just add the extra children on to the end of the family, with no name and no gender. (The sex field on the main tab of the Property Box has a menu of Male, Female or <clear sex>.) I then add a note to the nameless individual to record why I have created them but that they have not yet been identified.

Sometimes, as Mike says, it is possible to identify the missing children. I start by searching for deaths with the given surname in the appropriate area and date range. On the assumption that the children were born and died between censuses they would have been no more than 10 years old at death, and the GRO deaths index from mid 1860s onwards shows age at death, which gives you a clue. If parish records for the area and date are available online (but they may not be, as you are looking at post-1837 dates) you may be able to search for baptisms of any other children with the same parents.

[AdrianBruce]

The 1911 asked for "Children born alive ... who have died", in other words, it asked for children who should appear in birth (and death) registrations.

However, in terms of finding those children, I think we should bear in mind that parents' interpretations might not match the exact requirements. I have recently been looking for such a missing child and have drawn a blank. Since the family used a very strict naming scheme, I have some degree of confidence in my answer, and suspect that the answer may well be that the missing child was still-born. Such a child will not appear in registrations and should not have been counted for the 1911 but grieving parents may not have seen any necessity to obey the exact letter of the instruction.

So their exact identity may never be found - but I think it important to add them as Lorna suggests even if I cannot add any details.

[tatewise]

I have absolutely irrefutable evidence that Census details can be inaccurate, so beware.

One female ancestor claimed on the 1911 Census that one daughter had died:

She gives details of her daughters from her 1st Marriage although should have been for her 2nd Marriage at the time:
Total number of Children Born Alive: 2 (Margaret & Ada)
Total number of Children still Living: 1 (Ada is in Census)
Total number of Children who have Died: 1 (Margaret?)
She falsely claims Margaret the first of her two daughters has died.
Possibly Margaret aged 16 is missing as a suffragette protest.

The following crossed out entry would be correct for ALL her children from both 1st & 2nd Marriage.
Total number of Children Born Alive: 5 (Margaret, Ada, Joseph, Edna, Edith)
Total number of Children still Living: 4 (Margaret, Ada, Joseph, Edith)
Total number of Children who have Died: 1 (Edna)

Margaret turns up in another city and on official documents gives her mother's name & address as next of kin.
Her step-brother Joseph also moves to the same city and is a witness at her wedding.
So Margaret definitely did not die before 1911!

[pwe]

When faced with this situation of unknown children identified from the 1911 census I add the family to a dedicated named list. I add a note to the list entry to remind me how many children I am to look for. I can then look for them at my leisure.
Peter E

[rodit]

Thanks for the replies. I have done as Lorna suggests, using FreeBMD to go through death registers.
The family name is Massey, living in Salford. Mother was born 1847, married 1868.
From 1871 to 1881, 30 children under the age of 10 were registered as died (out 0f 57 total) - many in the age bracket 0 to 2
From 1881 to 1891, the number was 37 out of 81!! Similar age brackets.
Obviously it was not the healthiest of places, and makes me wonder how they managed to bring up any children at all! Infant death rates were terrible.
I will just record the 2 children as suggested, and probably never find out their names.

Thanks again

Roger

[StevieSteve]

Manchester (inc Salford) Baptisms are available online at Ancestry so you don't have to give up hope yet...

[tatewise]

If your were really keen, then one other alternative is to order all the possible Birth Certificates until you find the matching parents.

[rodit]

I realised after my first post that I had similar situations on A LOT of other 1911 census reports with 'Children Who Have Died', and am now going through them all. Ordering certificates might get a WEE bit expensive, although the death records in appropriate decades have reaped some reward.
I don't subscribe to Ancestry, though I could take out a month's worth and go like mad!
Thanks for the responses, and I will soldier on.

[Jane]

Don't forget you can record Children Counts against both Individuals and Families, by default you need to add it using the All tab or you can add the field the Property box if you prefer.

[tatewise]

I assume you have checked ALL Census Records for every decade from 1841 to 1901 in case those children happened to be alive on those dates.

In the UK, many Public Libraries have a subscription to Ancestry for members to use for free. It might be worth checking down under.

[ernymyc]

Good Morning All
A very useful website for Lancashire based research is Lancashire Online Parish Clerk (LOPC). You will find transcriptions for most Salford churches. It has a very comprehensive search facility. Good Luck