Posting Certificates on the Web

ADC65 · Post by **ADC65** » 20 Sep 2007 15:19

I have the opportunity on my web site to post scans of BMD certificates or census pages for certain individuals I choose (dead ones only for example), and restrict the viewing of those documents only to people I have given a log-in ID to for the site (other people can view the site but not the certificates/censuses).

Has anybody else done this? Or seen it elsewhere? I know the certificates are crown copyright but they don't seem to specifically say this can't be done, and anyway it might be considered fair use? Are there any pitfalls I haven't considered?

ID:2511

tonyt · Post by **tonyt** » 21 Sep 2007 07:34

I'm not 100% on what the rules are, but i do it and without any user login

I only publish the certificate reproduction part, not the whole certificate, though

And only for people long dead

I also publish the census sheets in full (with hotspots that link back to the relevant web pages, well only 1841 has the hotspots so far as it's quite time consuming to setup)

tonyt · Post by **tonyt** » 21 Sep 2007 09:40

I should say though that i'm currently working on some code to parse the FH website into asp format that will be password only access

JonAxtell · Post by **JonAxtell** » 21 Sep 2007 10:53

Technically the documents are copyrighted, but so long as you not making money from it it is a minor worry. Look at how many other sites publish scans of documents.

It's like copying tapes in the 80s - so many people did it it was impossible to police and so long as you weren't blatent about it and made money it was ignored as it wasn't worth the effort to bother about.

It all depends on how high profile your website is. If it's a family orientated one, then if it was me I wouldn't worry. If it's a major research project that thousands of people visit then it's best to get permission. Your site fits somewhere between the two and it's up to you to decide your level of risk.

The other important thing is that the scans must be relavent to your research so that a fair use argument could be made. So publishing scans of relavent sections of a census page are better than publishing a whole page. And do note the source/copyright of the document as well if publishing a fair bit of it.

stephenjones · Post by **stephenjones** » 21 Sep 2007 13:46

I think you should visit the Office of Public Sector Information web site at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/advice/crown-cop ... isters.htm for the official point of view.

Section 8d seems to be the most relevant.

tonyt · Post by **tonyt** » 21 Sep 2007 15:05

Thanks for the link

I guess the following:

'8. Government policy is not to authorise the copying of completed certificates except in the following circumstances:'

'd) within works of genealogical research undertaken by or on behalf of the family concerned where the work in question will be given limited distribution only. For the avoidance of doubt, a work will NOT be regarded as being given limited distribution if it is placed on the Internet;'

Makes it pretty clear!

Good job i've just finished password protecting my site (though the above seems to preclude even this limited method of distribution)

stephenjones · Post by **stephenjones** » 21 Sep 2007 16:36

Personally, I would say that password protecting your site would limit the distribution, but who am I to second guess a civil servant?

Tombaston · Post by **Tombaston** » 22 Sep 2007 08:25

tonyt said:
I guess the following:

'8. Government policy is not to authorise the copying of completed certificates except in the following circumstances:'

'd) within works of genealogical research undertaken by or on behalf of the family concerned where the work in question will be given limited distribution only. For the avoidance of doubt, a work will NOT be regarded as being given limited distribution if it is placed on the Internet;'

I had previously thought that the copyright meant you couldn't copy them at all. Section 8d is good as it means you can make copies for your family. Presumably this is also why you can make copies of local registers held on microfilm at county record offices.

Section 8b is also useful

'b) by individuals or organisations for their own record keeping purposes, provided that the copies are not passed to others as evidence of birth, death or marriage;'

This presumably means we can make scans or photocopies of certificates we have purchased for safe keeping.

As for posting on the internet, it seems fairly clear that this is not permitted. So it's down to you to assess the risk of it ever being found and anyone bothering to do anything about. I would hope any government departments trawling the internet are looking for terrorists, sexual abuse and other unacceptable illegal activity rather than family historians who are law abiding apart from posting a copy of a 100 year old death certificate.

I think the main issue is that HMSO place no distinction on certificates issued for family history purposes compared to identification purposes. This is why we have to pay £7 for a 150 year old birth certificate, it is a certified legal copy that someone could use to claim they were that person!

ADC65 · Post by **ADC65** » 11 Oct 2007 12:28

Thank you all for your replies; apologies it has taken a while to respond.

I don't particularly want to flaunt the law, as it's probably there for a reason (as Tombaston makes clear), but also feel it is unfair to make genuine researchers of the same family line have to pay again for a copy of the same certificate. So I have decided I am going to post scans of the BMD certificates (dead people only), but lock these down so that only people with a log in ID and password can access them. I am hoping that this covers the 'limited distribution only' clause, in spite of being placed on the Internet.

I'm not expecting masses of visitors to the site, but if my next post comes via HMP Belmarsh you know I've been caught!

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