* Census or Residence fact

[makfai]

I know there is an option of Census information recorded in Census or Residence fact and I use the default of Census.

However once AS has updated FH I also then manually cut and past the address/place as a resident fact. Is there a way to get AS to do this automatically?

ID:5894

[makfai]

I have just seen that Nick has previously said that 'If you created a census and residence fact this would be an unnecessary repetition.'

However in that same comment Nick explained the difference - the Census does not imply 'residence' just 'presence' on that occasion.

However, this difference shows that it is not repetition to create two entries.  The two entries say different things about the person.  

I have, for example, people listed at place X in the Census but have, for the same date, their residence listed at place Y.  They just happened to be away visiting relatives at the time.

However by far the most Census entries relate to a person at their residence and it is time consuming when you have entered a large family to have to create a new residence entry and copy and paste it into the other's records.

The option to update both rather than an option of one or the other would save having to reprocess data already entered in AS

[tatewise]

I think Nick's point is the distinction between fact and inference.

A Census Return records as fact that a person was present at an address on a particular date, but not that they were necessarily resident there.

Whereas, a Marriage Certificate or an Electoral Roll records as fact that a person was resident at an address about the time of the document, but not that they were present there on any particular date.

Any other interpretation of these or similar source documents strictly speaking is an assumption or an inference, which may be highly likely, but not factually proven by the documents.

[NickWalker]

You are looking at a census record and making your decision that this is therefore their residence but as Mike says this is just an inference.

In my opinion... Recording it as a census fact says everything that needs to be said. By using the census fact you are recording that they were there on census night, and of course there is a good chance this is their residence too. What possible benefit does also recording it as a residence give you? If you had an individual who happened to always be staying at their parent's house on census night every 10 years you might wrongly assume they lived there. Better to record the facts, and allow the person reading your data to make their own minds up as to what that might mean.

Having said that, I have very frequently added features to Ancestral Sources (and previously Gedcom Census) that I wouldn't recommend using. What makes this more difficult is that presumably you need the facility for each individual in the household to tick whether a residence event should be created or not. So the people you mentioned staying at place X would have the residence event unticked but the rest of the household ticked? Or would you be happy if it just created Census and Residence for everyone so that you can delete the residence events if they don't apply?

Cheers

Nick

[makfai]

I am afraid that Mike is assuming that I record the info under residence as a fact when I do not know it is a fact.

When I record ANY information which is not 100% certain I make that clear in the entry I make.

FH and AS allow for Notes and an Assessment of the source and any doubts about the permanence of a person's residence can be included either in the AS Notes when the Census info is being completed or later directly into the FH entry.

I record the residence as a fact when I know it was the residence. So for example when I know that I had relatives who lived in Sumner Street Crompton in 1901 and I find a Census record for them in that street for that year I am satisfied that the record shows not only where they were that day but that this was their residence.

I would also say that it is completely reasonable to 'assume' that, if a person is shown there as the Head of the household, that he/she is resident there. If the Head of a household has a wife or young child listed in that form I believe it is reasonable to assume that this too is their residence.

All entries require an assessment of their accuracy and some of us are more accurate (or pedantic) than others. It depends what each of us wants from the records we are making.

I believe that the person processing the data and recording it in FH/AS as part of their research is capable of reaching a reasonable conclusion as to the validity of the entry they are making and can also make their own decision to qualify it if it is in doubt - if that is what they wish.

I am not saying that all persons should record their information in the same way. All I am saying is that as there is already an either/or option for recording it as Census or Residence it would be of value (and relatively simple programming-wise) to have an option of recording it as both.

I did not know if it was already possible to do this and that is why I asked. If it is not possible I would like to add it to the 'wish list'.

[makfai]

I must first of all say to Nick that I have used both versions of your programme since I first discovered it.  When I did first discover it I posted that I only wished I had found it sooner!!  

It has now developed into a very sophisticated tool and having previously contributed (modestly!) to the costs I would openly declare that, when you turn this into a piece of wholly commercial software, I will be one of your first customers!  Enough flattery!

As regards Nick's options, either would do for me.  I realise that there is always a balance and that includes balancing a complicated interface for the user (all types)against accuracy; and balancing a service to the user against programming challenges.

I would be happy to just have this option as another alternative to the current either/or alternative because both AS and FH already allow for the source note to contain a qualification and I could always add another note in FH if I wanted.

HOWEVER [rolleyes] - I fully appreciate that if you bring out a version based on the above someone will say why cannot you make a selection in AS against an individual.

As I said in my previous post, people using FH and AS (and other software) have a range of skill levels and place different demands on themselves re accuracy based on those skills and what they want to achieve.  For most it is only when (like us) you become a genealogy junky that you start making increasing demands on yourself for accuracy etc!

I am happy to leave any decision re the future to Nick.  I could not have done what you have done and I appreciate AS for what it already is.  I do believe that you could add value with other things like Marriage Certs which contain a lot of good info on several people but assume that this will all follow now we have crossed the Baptism threshold [wink]

[NickWalker]

I'll see what I can do - it is a reasonably easy change to make compared to most things I get asked for! - no promises that it will be in the next version though.

Version 3, which includes Marriage entries will be out very soon - hopefully by the end of this month.

Cheers

Nick

[makfai]

As always - up to you about the change.

Great news about the marriage entries[smile]  Keep up the good work. . .about time you  started charging now!  Did I really say that?? [confused]

[NickWalker]

As long as people keep giving me donations occasionally then I'm happy - if I ask for payment, people might become more critical and get annoyed if things don't work

[makfai]

Good for you!
[wink]

[NickWalker]

OK for the new version 3 of Ancestral Sources (out soon), I've added the option to record Census and Residence facts for all individuals in a census entry.

Best wishes

Nick

[makfai]

What took you so long????[wink]