Family Historian User Group

I have just started using AS for marriages and am not sure how it handles witnesses. If they are in the File, should the Marriage data be added to them?

In the cases I have put in so far this has not occurred, and I wasn't sure if that was the design, or me going wrong.

Regards

Roger[question]

ID:5998

The default settings just record their names in the local note of the marriage event. There are a variety of other 'associated individual' settings so that you can instead choose to record them in other ways, e.g. by creating a custom event or attribute. Take a look at the help page on Associated Individual Types.

Also work through the tutorials in the Knowledge Base at Ancestral Sources Tutorials.
These cover Census and Baptism and Marriage records, and some extra tutorials on Working With Templates that includes Associated Individual Types.

I already have a custom attribute for Marriage witnesses is it possible to link to it from Ancestral Sources?

Yes, you can use that custom attribute for your Witness associated individual type. You just need to make sure that you specify you will be using a custom attribute and make sure it has the same name as the one you use in FH.

Hello Nick thanks for advice, but I must be putting something in the wrong place, I have enclosed my Marriage Witnesses fact attribute and the template from AS.
Could someone tell me what I should put where please.

I think Method: needs to be Custom Attribute rather than Local note.  Then you can specify the name of your Custom Attribute.

First, click New and set the Title: to Marriage Witness to match your Attribute Name.
Select Method: of Custom Attribute.
Set Attribute: field to your Attribute Name i.e. Marriage Witness.
You will also have to choose a suitable Value: field.
When happy all is OK, click Save.

Thereafter, use your Marriage Witness - Custom Attribute association, instead of the AS default Witness - Local Note association.

However, you could use both if you wish, then you would get both a Marriage Witness - Custom Attribute added to each Witness, and a Local Note in the Marriage Event.

How could the Knowledge Base for Ancestral Sources ~ Working With Templates ~ Associated Individual Types ~ Tutorials be improved to make the process more understandable?

Thanks Peter I done that as Nick said previously but I perhaps did not explain properly.My previous post included original template when I should have shown the one below Custom Attribute,I filled in Attribute, what do I put in Value? that is what I meant to ask.

Thank you Mike will have another go at it thanks for simple explanation.

The Value: field should contain what you want to appear in the Marriage Witness value field for the Custom Attribute.
Probably something like {KEYPERSON} & {SPOUSE}.

Assuming your Marriage Witness sentence Template is something like:
{individual} witnessed the marriage {date} {place}
then {KEYPERSON} & {SPOUSE} would result in the groom & bride name being inserted for {value}.

Looking at Tommy's posting of 08/03 at 23.03, I think the confusion is arising because his existing custom attribute is an attribute of the COUPLE marrying, and the value for that is presumably the names of the witnesses, while the AS attribute is an attribute of the WITNESSES, for which the value is the names of the couple marrying.

Lorna

Mike,
Based on what you have said, then shouldn't the custom attribute be for an individual (Not for a family as Tommy has).
I admit, I have been stuck on this, and the discussion is helping me as well.

[EDIT] Looks like Lorna is thinking the same

Well spotted Lorna.

The AS Custom Event and Custom Attribute are normally expected to be created for the Associated Individual(s) and refer to the Keyperson &/or Spouse (in this case the Witnesses referring to the Couple).

In hindsight, I don't think it can be made to work for Tommy's Custom Family Attribute, even if the parameters are switched around.
This is because AS always creates a Custom Individual Attribute.

Unfortunately, in this instance Tommy will have to create his Custom Family Attribute by hand in FH - Sorry.

The only help AS can offer is to use the default Associated Individual - Local Note so that the details are in the Marriage Event Note and handy to transfer into the Custom Family Attribute in FH.


[EDIT]
The only other option is if Tommy changes his Custom Attribute to an Individual one.
But the sentence Template would not be able to use {couple}, it would have to be {individual}.

Then in AS the Value: field could be {OTHER}.

On the Further Info tab the details entered would be:
Other Info: names of the Witnesses.
Name: select Groom from Individual names and click Save.
Name: select Bride from Individual names and click Save again.
That should create two Individual Custom Attributes, one for Groom and one for Bride, both with the Witnesses as the {value}.

Wouldn't it be better for the Individual Attribute Witness to be linked to the Individual who was the witness, whether for a marriage event or for a will, etc.?

I thought I'd covered all bases for how people might record witnesses, god-parents, etc. but this is a method that I'd not considered (nor indeed any of the beta testers)! This will have to be one for the AS 'wish list' for a future version. I sometimes get comments that Ancestral Sources has too many options and that this confuses people. I could make it far easier to use by just limiting the options by adopting a 'do it my way or don't use it' attitude. However, I like to try to keep everyone happy, but it is so difficult to predict the huge range of methods that different people use.

Best wishes

Nick

PeterR said:
Wouldn't it be better for the Individual Attribute Witness to be linked to the Individual who was the witness, whether for a marriage event or for a will, etc.?

I think the difference is that the witness would have to be an individual in your file whereas Tommy's attribute just refers to the names of the witnesses - effectively this is similar to the AS 'Just Names'->'Local Note' associated individual type.

Thanks for all your answers of help, the problem with my witnesses might be because the Scottish certificates sometimes list peoples full names and addresses,when they are witnesses.

I have another spanner in the works Nick, I have an custom attribute for an Occupation for a person after death.
Again Scottish death certificates usually give the parents occupation after they are deceased, eg a son dies and his father has predeceased him it will list the fathers occupation.

Many thanks to you all for interesting answers I can now understand it.

Wow! I seem to have opened Pandora's Box.

My own query was answered by Nick, using the 'associated individual' Tab.

I think I got lost in the following discussions

Thanks again.

Roger
[smile]