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[sbankscharles]

I'm new to both Family Historian and Ancestral Sources. Already spend a lot of time reading information but have one question I just don't get. Was using Roots Magic 9 and started setting up Source, Citations and Facts with lumping. To be clear, one source for 1900 Census with multiple citations for each head of household census fact. The citation / fact is then shared with family on that census (Wife-Census; Son-Census etc.)

In AS under census history the two items I'm trying to understand are: 1. I only see census for the census fact, not 'Son-Census'; and 2. I cannot see details of what I already have.

Am I missing something or going about this all wrong?

Thanks
Charles

[tatewise]

Welcome to the FHUG Charles.

I suspect you may need to perform some tidying up in FH before moving forward.
I don't think the Wife-Census, Son-Census, etc, import in a compatible way in FH.
Also, lumper-style Source Citations are more difficult to manage in FH.

I'm sure users who are more well-versed in importing such data from RM will advise you further.
This discussion may be better continued in the Importing and Exporting forum as they are not really AS problems.

[fhtess65]

Hi Charles,

Welcome to the FHUG! To understand sourcing in FH and how to us AS, I recommend watching Nick Walker's YouTube videos, in the order below:

https://youtu.be/jm6gg1HSbEs (All About Sources in Family Historian)
https://youtu.be/7tj9FzTZIng (Ancestral Sources - Introduction)
https://youtu.be/7yxPQHlHgsg (Using Family Historian Templated Sources in Ancestral Sources)
https://youtu.be/IBKVEa_tbiA (Ancestral Sources Census Source Conversion)
https://youtu.be/IBKVEa_tbiA (Ancestral Source V7 - What's New?)

I honestly wish I'd had the above when I first started with FH. Nick's instruction is clear and easy to follow.

Teresa

I'm new to both Family Historian and Ancestral Sources. Already spend a lot of time reading information but have one question I just don't get. Was using Roots Magic 9 and started setting up Source, Citations and Facts with lumping. <SNIP>

Am I missing something or going about this all wrong?

Thanks
Charles

[sbankscharles]

Thanks for the replies. I understand that lump is more complicated, but that is what I want to use and hope that AS can make it quick and easy for me. Also, I do understand that this is not an issue with AS and do not believe I indicated it was. You will notice that the last part of my post was "or am I doing something wrong".

I will watch the videos also although I have watched several so far.

[tatewise]

As I implied earlier, it may be best to put AS to one side and concentrate on FH initially.
When you are more familiar with the FH features then the way AS integrates will be easier to understand.

Your current posting is in the AS Forum, which implies you want help with AS, so would it be reasonable for me to move it to the FH General Usage Forum or even the Importing and Exporting Forum that may be more appropriate?

[NickWalker]

Thanks for the replies. I understand that lump is more complicated, but that is what I want to use and hope that AS can make it quick and easy for me. Also, I do understand that this is not an issue with AS and do not believe I indicated it was. You will notice that the last part of my post was "or am I doing something wrong".

I will watch the videos also although I have watched several so far.

[Sorry I replied at the same time as Mike]
Hi Charles. I think the confusion was because it was posted in the Ancestral Sources forum when, as you say, it isn't an AS issue. It's not a problem for me to have this question in the AS forum but you may need help from people who've got experience of converting from RM which is why I haven't responded before and those people might not see your question in the AS forum - hence Mike's suggestion to post this in the 'Importing and Exporting' forum.

In Family Historian (and AS), I'd expect each member of the household to have a standard census fact (the head, spouse, each child, etc) with a citation linking back to your 'lumped' source. FH users wouldn't generally use the 'wife-census', 'son-census' concept: you could use this if you wish but AS won't be able to help you in that case. I wonder if the 'Change Any Fact' plugin could help you to change all the 'wife-census', 'son-census' into 'census' facts. If you need support with that then I'm sure Mike can advise (he created the plugin).

Best wishes

Nick

P.S. I do understand why you posted it into the AS forum. Everything will have looked fine when you viewed your data in FH. It is only when you've looked at it in AS that you've spotted the 'problem'.

[sbankscharles]

I have been working with my mentor, the person who also got me started with AS and FH, last evening and now can better articulate both my post and why I posted here.

In AS, once you have filled out all the information and added everyone you can look over the information for the census on that page. Once you hit save the information is cleared. If you want to make a change, like for testing, you have to re-enter all the information. Additionally, if you are working with census within a family, it would be nice to see what information you already have. In other words, it would be great if AS would pull any information you have for a census up in AS. I realize now that FH handles wife, son etc. differently, but if they both have the fact for census year you are working on it should show up in AS. When you hit save now, it warns you that information will be overwritten so it knows the information is there.

The second question about wife-census I now understand how FH works and am adapting both with AS and FH

Thanks

Charles

[NickWalker]

Ancestral Sources is used to enter data, it is not designed to edit existing data. Family Historian has perfectly good facilities for editing data. In addition it would be an almost impossible task for AS to pull existing data back in for editing, except in a limited way. When AS records a census entry it scatters data across your family history file. It generates census facts, occupation facts, birth facts, nationality facts, religion facts, physical description facts, media records, puts data into citations and sources, some data goes into local notes, some data only gets recorded in source transcriptions, etc. And all of this is dependant on the thousands of possible combinations of settings that a user might choose to use. AS couldn't possibly identify all that data and bring it in to edit under all these different circumstances. I've already spent thousands of hours developing this software and it would take thousands more to even be able to come close to doing that (spoiler alert: I won't be doing it). On the very rare occasions that I make a mistake in entering data into AS for my own tree, it's a fairly trivial thing to make the changes in FH so I just don't think the effort is justified for the very few times it would be required.

Having said that, there is a facility in AS that is designed for those who have used AS in the past and would like to edit existing census records to turn them into templated sources and/or rich-text. But this is only a very limited form of editing and only works with 'method 1' splitter sources.

While testing AS and until you get the settings you want, I'd suggest using a copy of your file, or the sample project. So in that way you don't get frustrated at having to re-enter data in the way you describe.

AS does warn you if you try to add a census record for an individual for the same year as an existing entry and you can see the details of that existing census fact in the list beneath the individual's name on the right but that's as much about validation (making sure you've chosen the correct census year) and in terms of replacing existing entries it is limited to just the census fact unless the occupations, etc. have exactly the same date and place specified.

[Gary_G]

"sbankscharles";

Like you, I had initially hoped to use AS to edit my extensive imported RM data. In retrospect, it's clear to me that AS was intended more for entering new data. As a fellow "refugee" from RM, I think that you just may find that the best way to edit old data from RM9 is to use your imported RM templates. You may need to tweak them a bit first, as FH7 converts them fairly well, but not always perfectly.

I'd second Nick's recommendation about setting up AS using a test database, since I found trying to get the numerous configuration settings "correct" to be a bit daunting. I made mistakes in the setup and I imagine you will as well. It's fairly straight-forward after that.