* Testing Ancestral Sources v7.6.4

[NickWalker]

Re the Region question I was only trying to match up AS with FH7 which has England and Wales as one of the default regions in the Census Template. I appreciate your solution offered for the Autotext but I think I will continue to do it manually.

Presumably the FH solution isn't correct then if it doesn't include the Language column when entering Welsh records. For many years I had 'UK' as the country but I was frequently reminded this wasn't correct by people with Scottish, Welsh and Isle of Man (hi John ) records which is why I split it out. It's difficult to keep everyone happy, but at least the formula I mentioned above does solve this problem.

[ColeValleyGirl]

The census dea has templates for england, wales, scotland , isle on man
, channel isles and ireland. If you specify the region as england and wales it prompts you to choose. The templates include ALL the country etc specific items.

[NickWalker]

The census dea has templates for england, wales, scotland , isle on man
, channel isles and ireland. If you specify the region as england and wales it prompts you to choose. The templates include ALL the country etc specific items.

Thanks for clarifying - I stand corrected . I was just looking at the prepared templates (are they called autotext in FH?) which are labelled UK. I tend to forget about the DEA stuff.

[NickWalker]

I've done some conversions now. The auto-next means it's even quicker at least for 1841. I have found an issue when I got to 1851. The conversion slips the birth location to the Infirmity column where the occupation is blank, even though the empty column is there as | |

The tool does at least allow quick shifting of contents back left a column, but I assume it's an oversight in the RT to Plain conversion or something, not had time to investigate and now have to go out for the day.

I've worked out what was going wrong here and this will be fixed in the next test version.

[NickWalker]

The slight issue is if there is nothing before the first comma:
Eg:
, Huntingdon Street, Islington, Middlesex, , England gives Middlesex Islington Huntingdon Street
but
22, Huntingdon Street, Islington, Middlesex, , England gives Islington Huntingdon Street 22

Am using =COMMAINDEX[3%,{PLACE}] =COMMAINDEX[2%,{PLACE}] =COMMAINDEX[1%,{PLACE}]

Hi David

It took me a little while to figure out what was happening here. The reason it doesn't work is because you have Tools->Options->General Settings - Source Text->Autotext Place/Address Tidy on. This is a default setting in AS and removes additional spaces or commas at the start and end of places and addresses.

Cheers

Nick

[tatewise]

IMO, that seems to be a catch-22 scenario!
I suspect for most displays the Autotext Place/Address Tidy option needs to be ON to tidy the commas.
However, for =COMMAINDEX[n%,{PLACE}] to work consistently the redundant commas must usually be retained so that option needs to be OFF.

Perhaps, =COMMAINDEX[n%,{PLACE}] should ignore the option and always operate on untidied {PLACE} values.

c.f. The FH =TextPart(...) function has a parameter that governs the tidying and reversal of parts.

[David2416]

It took me a little while to figure out what was happening here. The reason it doesn't work is because you have Tools->Options->General Settings - Source Text->Autotext Place/Address Tidy on. This is a default setting in AS and removes additional spaces or commas at the start and end of places and addresses.

IMO, that seems to be a catch-22 scenario!
I suspect for most displays the Autotext Place/Address Tidy option needs to be ON to tidy the commas.
However, for =COMMAINDEX[n%,{PLACE}] to work consistently the redundant commas must usually be retained so that option needs to be OFF.

Perhaps, =COMMAINDEX[n%,{PLACE}] should ignore the option and always operate on untidied {PLACE} values.

c.f. The FH =TextPart(...) function has a parameter that governs the tidying and reversal of parts.

You are correct Nick as screenshot shows.

Screenshot 2022-11-09 075154.jpg

I'll uncheck that setting for the moment, as a work around. Mike's suggestion that COMMINDEX ignores that option seems potentially a good solution.

[NickWalker]

It isn't really possible/practical for Commaindex to ignore the option because technically there could be hundreds of nested functions within the second parameter and tracking that there is a COMMAINDEX many levels of recursion above would be messy . I think the solution is to introduce a new sub-keyword to PLACE and ADDRESS e.g {PLACE.FULL} and {ADDRESS.FULL} which guarantee to always return the unprocessed place and address.

[David2416]

Sounds good.

[David2416]

Hi Nick,

I have started using AS to Rename files using my own name as I add them. If I choose the Enter your own title, it is enabled for the first file, but does not enable automatically when I add further files. Choosing one of the other options eg Use Image Template and then choose Enter your own title It is re-enabled. The screenshot below sets the context, one file has already been added, I am adding a second.

Screenshot 2022-11-09 155803.jpg

Another oddity is if the enbolden the titles row in the 1911 or 1921 census by selecting the row and using ctrl b the result isn't quite what I expect. That works for other censuses

Screenshot 2022-11-09 162636.jpg

I correct it by amending the two codes in FH as highlighted below

Screenshot 2022-11-09 164415.jpg

They are nuisances rather than show stoppers.

David

[ChrisRead]

I came across an odd behaviour when converting non-link RT census to linked RT. I'd done 1841 and most of 1851, but had one that behaved oddly. I think it's caused by my own failings in the distant past, but curious as to why.

I had a 1851 census source but when selected it didn't recognise the people, and it changed it from census 1951 to Electoral Roll, which was a bit odd. It made me investigate what was going on as the source and text were no different from the others I'd done. It turned out after much head-scratching that it must have been left over and never linked to a census event. It still claimed to have a single citation usage, but the individual didn't seem to have that source used anywhere.

It seems that there were two families next-door to each other and I must have started by having a single source, but at some point changed to have one for each family, but never did the same for the other. Given the confusing pickle of who was who with names, I probably put it aside at the time leaving an apparently unused source.

For some reason, the conversion is being confused by this and decides it's an Electoral Roll, but I'm sure you would know the inner workings as to how this might occur.

Anyway I fathomed the family connections and used AS to do the census with a shared media between the two families. As I have links on, it won't need to be converted now anyway, so I reported this as more of a curio for reference.

[NickWalker]

Just discovered a problem that has existed a while (Since at least 7.0.3)

I have several relatives with the name Cæsar ??? when entering or converting a census the autotext looks alright in AS but ends up in FH as C???. The same name in the source title is OK though

Back to ver 7.6 when converting RTF sources to link names the columns all get shunted 1 place left so the name header is actually over the relationship column. It doesn't happen every time though. EDIT Seems to happen on sources created with AS 7.0.3, but not on sources created with 7.0.4

It is not a major problem to sort out though.
I've converted about 50 this afternoon, only another 380 RTF sources to go, leaving about 3560 lain text sources to do.

I could probably go faster , but I am double checking images at the same time and found a couple of incorrect image links at the same time.

Hi John

AS isn't handling the special single æ character correctly. Hopefully this will be fixed in the next test version.

I am also hoping the problem with the RTF columns being shunted will be fixed too.

Thanks

Nick

[Tony Jones]

I came across an odd behaviour when converting non-link RT census to linked RT. I'd done 1841 and most of 1851, but had one that behaved oddly. I think it's caused by my own failings in the distant past, but curious as to why.

I had a 1851 census source but when selected it didn't recognise the people, and it changed it from census 1951 to Electoral Roll, which was a bit odd. It made me investigate what was going on as the source and text were no different from the others I'd done. It turned out after much head-scratching that it must have been left over and never linked to a census event. It still claimed to have a single citation usage, but the individual didn't seem to have that source used anywhere.

It seems that there were two families next-door to each other and I must have started by having a single source, but at some point changed to have one for each family, but never did the same for the other. Given the confusing pickle of who was who with names, I probably put it aside at the time leaving an apparently unused source.

For some reason, the conversion is being confused by this and decides it's an Electoral Roll, but I'm sure you would know the inner workings as to how this might occur.

Anyway I fathomed the family connections and used AS to do the census with a shared media between the two families. As I have links on, it won't need to be converted now anyway, so I reported this as more of a curio for reference.

I've had a few of these, I'm currently working through my 1841 entries, and while I didn't look into what was different with these, it may be (as you suggest) entries I did in the early days.

I've also noticed my naming convention throws up interesting suggestions in AS for the Ref ID. I don't seem to name very consistently and only around half get picked up correctly. Better than none!

[NickWalker]

I've also noticed my naming convention throws up interesting suggestions in AS for the Ref ID. I don't seem to name very consistently and only around half get picked up correctly. Better than none!

It isn't your naming convention that AS uses. AS doesn't look at your source name to work it out (that would far too hit and miss). It looks at what you have in the publication information field of the source which is where AS records the registration id by default. If you're only converting plain to rich text (and not converting generic to templated sources) then it doesn't matter if the registration id is there or not unless you include it in your own modified autotext census template.

AS looks at the source title and the date of the census fact for clues as to which census country/year it is likely to be looking at and selects from the list based on that.

[Tony Jones]

I've also noticed my naming convention throws up interesting suggestions in AS for the Ref ID. I don't seem to name very consistently and only around half get picked up correctly. Better than none!

It isn't your naming convention that AS uses. AS doesn't look at your source name to work it out (that would far too hit and miss). It looks at what you have in the publication information field of the source which is where AS records the registration id by default. If you're only converting plain to rich text (and not converting generic to templated sources) then it doesn't matter if the registration id is there or not unless you include it in your own modified autotext census template.

AS looks at the source title and the date of the census fact for clues as to which census country/year it is likely to be looking at and selects from the list based on that.

So, as I don't seem to use Publication info (or custom ID for that matter), what is it grabbing for the proposed ID? In my case it grabs the end of my title after the final space. Just interested, and thanks very much for the good work!

[NickWalker]

So, as I don't seem to use Publication info (or custom ID for that matter), what is it grabbing for the proposed ID? In my case it grabs the end of my title after the final space. Just interested, and thanks very much for the good work!

That's a good question. I can't remember but I probably also look at the 'where in source' in the citation in case it is recorded in there (which is another AS option).

[ColinMc]

Nick,

Just managing to test the new "Add Hyperlinks facility". Much appreciated thanks.

Spotted a problem in using "Modify Table" inside AS.

I am trying to delete a complete blank row (inserted by me in some cases before you kindly added that facility to add a carriage return in the header).

As far as I can see, if I place the cursor in the blank row, in a column with data in it, all works well. If I insert the cursor in that same row but now into a column with no data then deleting the row has the effect of deleting data in the row below the one being deleted in at least the next three columns to the left of where the column was inserted). It may delete other row data as well, but I have not tested that

I have a video of this in action as it rather difficult to explain but as I can't attach it here, I'll email it to you.

I had a suspicion that something similar MAY have been happening on deleting columns, but at the moment I cannot find any examples. It may be my imagination.

[NickWalker]

I came across an odd behaviour when converting non-link RT census to linked RT. I'd done 1841 and most of 1851, but had one that behaved oddly. I think it's caused by my own failings in the distant past, but curious as to why.

I had a 1851 census source but when selected it didn't recognise the people, and it changed it from census 1951 to Electoral Roll, which was a bit odd. It made me investigate what was going on as the source and text were no different from the others I'd done. It turned out after much head-scratching that it must have been left over and never linked to a census event. It still claimed to have a single citation usage, but the individual didn't seem to have that source used anywhere.

It seems that there were two families next-door to each other and I must have started by having a single source, but at some point changed to have one for each family, but never did the same for the other. Given the confusing pickle of who was who with names, I probably put it aside at the time leaving an apparently unused source.

For some reason, the conversion is being confused by this and decides it's an Electoral Roll, but I'm sure you would know the inner workings as to how this might occur.

Anyway I fathomed the family connections and used AS to do the census with a shared media between the two families. As I have links on, it won't need to be converted now anyway, so I reported this as more of a curio for reference.

AS looks for the census date via a census fact. It then looks through the list of census templates which have a date to match. In this case there is no date. The electoral roll templates don't have a date specified either so that counts as a potential match. It doesn't have any other data to go on so settles for the first one it finds.

[NickWalker]

Hi Nick,

I have started using AS to Rename files using my own name as I add them. If I choose the Enter your own title, it is enabled for the first file, but does not enable automatically when I add further files. Choosing one of the other options eg Use Image Template and then choose Enter your own title It is re-enabled. The screenshot below sets the context, one file has already been added, I am adding a second.
David

Thanks David, this is fixed in the next version.

[NickWalker]

Another oddity is if the enbolden the titles row in the 1911 or 1921 census by selecting the row and using ctrl b the result isn't quite what I expect. That works for other censuses

I think this will be a bit better in the next version. I am restricted by the rather poor functionality of the rich-text interface I have to use and it's a bit of a miracle it works at all really! There are various oddities that I'm unlikely to ever be able to resolve for this reason.

[NickWalker]

Spotted a problem in using "Modify Table" inside AS.

I am trying to delete a complete blank row (inserted by me in some cases before you kindly added that facility to add a carriage return in the header).

As far as I can see, if I place the cursor in the blank row, in a column with data in it, all works well. If I insert the cursor in that same row but now into a column with no data then deleting the row has the effect of deleting data in the row below the one being deleted in at least the next three columns to the left of where the column was inserted). It may delete other row data as well, but I have not tested that

I have a video of this in action as it rather difficult to explain but as I can't attach it here, I'll email it to you.

I had a suspicion that something similar MAY have been happening on deleting columns, but at the moment I cannot find any examples. It may be my imagination.

Thanks Colin. I think this will work better in the next test version.

Cheers

Nick

[NickWalker]

I've just released an updated version for testing.

Changes in v7.6.1 (Beta Test)

• Fixed a glitch with the conversion of rich-text without hyperlinks to hyperlink version where it didn't always line up the data correctly. Thanks to Bill Henshaw and Chris Read for reporting this.
• The =COMMAINDEX function will now also accept a negative index with -1 return the data after the final comma, -2 the data before that and so on. This was suggested by Mike Tate.
• Added a FULL sub-tag to PLACE and ADDR tags to return the untidied versions of the place/address as the Autotext Place/Address Tidy option can remove commas which then produces unpredictable results when using the =COMMAINDEX function.
• Fixed an issue where more unusual characters didn't always display correctly in rich text. Thanks to John Morrison for reporting this.
• If the Image Viewer option to "enter your own title" was selected by default it didn't enable the associated text box. This was reported by David Cooper and is now fixed.
• Made some improvements to resolve an issue reported by David Cooper where emboldening selected text produced unexpected results.
• Colin McDonald reported that deleting rows from the rich-text table can sometimes produce strange results. I'm hoping this is now working correctly within the limitations of the rich-text control I'm forced to use.

The 64 bit version is available to test here: Ancestral Sources v7.6.1 64 Bit
The 32 bit version is available to test here: Ancestral Sources v7.6.1 32 Bit

Please report in this thread any issues you spot or email me (nick at ancestralsources dot com).

[ColinMc]

Nick

Really appreciate the effort you put in.

Won't get much of a chance to test till tomorrow I suspect tho.

Thanks again


Colin

[BillH]

Fixed a glitch with the conversion of rich-text without hyperlinks to hyperlink version where it didn't always line up the data correctly. Thanks to Bill Henshaw and Chris Read for reporting this.

Nick,

I can confirm that this has corrected the issue I was seeing.

Thanks for the quick fix.

Bill

[David2416]

Really like the COMMAINDEX function, really useful in titles and auto text templates. Thank you.