* V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

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V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by Valkrider »

Nick

v4.0.1 runs perfectly under Crossover on a Mac.

I have just upgraded to 4.5 and had to create a new 'bottle' as FH v6 needs Windows 7 not XP which is what the old version of AS was running in. It was a painless install in XP with 4.0.1 but unfortunately 4.5 does not seem to be the same. It installs fine but will not run it opens then closes immediately.

Are there any significant changes to the architecture of 4.5 or any M$ required components that were not required in 4.01?
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by tatewise »

The Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 needed by AS was integral with the Win XP bottle.
I wonder if that is the case for the Win 7 bottle or not?
May be Crossover support could answer that.

There is a CrossTie at:
https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibili ... pp_id=4662
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by NickWalker »

Valkrider wrote:Are there any significant changes to the architecture of 4.5 or any M$ required components that were not required in 4.01?
No I'm not aware of any significant changes that might cause this kind of problem - 4.5 didn't require any new components and the changes were all behind the scenes really.

Nick
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by tatewise »

Colin, it is not clear from your posting exactly which AS versions you installed into which bottles.

Does AS V4.0.1 install & run in both FH V5 Win XP bottle and FH V6 Win 7 bottle?

How does AS V4.5 install & run in FH V5 Win XP bottle and FH V6 Win 7 bottle?

Are they 32-bit or 64-bit bottles, and which bit variant (32 or 64) of AS are you installing in each case?

Could you possibly try all valid AS versions/variants in both bottles in order to get a complete picture.
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V4.5 on Mac under Crossover

Post by Valkrider »

I have now confirmed that the Win 7 bottle is also 32bit.

I cannot get v4.5 of AS to install in either of the existing bottles XP for v5 and Win7 for v6. I can get v4.5 of AS to install in its own Win7 bottle but I need to add the Net Framework. On install Crossover states that v3.5sp1 of the Net framework is incompatible with the AS Win 7 bottle and that it will install Net Framework v2 instead.

I have done very limited testing so far with AS v4.5 in its own bottle and so far it seems OK. Needless to say as it is in its own bottle your FH plugin for AS Data Entry won't run as it says AS is not installed even if both bottles are running.

It seems to me so far that the Win 7 bottle is less suitable for FH than the XP one for v5.

The next step I suppose is to try v6 of FH an a Win8 bottle but as someone who doesn't like Win 8 this is a last resort.
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by tatewise »

I suggest, rather than experimenting, it is appropriate to ask Code Weavers for assistance.
Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 was integral with the Win XP bottle.
Ask them how to obtain the same .NET Framework with a Win 7 bottle.
I don't think AS V4 will be happy with .NET Framework v2 ~ some things won't work.

I presume you tried the Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 CrossTie?

I would be handy to know if AS V4.0.1 installs in the FH V6 Win 7 bottle (I suspect not).
Then say to Code Weavers that FH & AS install in Win XP OK, but not together in Win 7.
Let them suggest using Win 8 if that is best way forward.

(I think this thread should be kept separate form the V6 and Crossover MAC (11920) thread.)
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by Valkrider »

Mike

As both FH and AS are an 'unsupported application' the support from Codeweavers is very limited.

There is no need to use the Crosstie as with the current version of Crossover installing Net Framework into a bottle is an option.

I have just deleted the FH6 bottle and created a new Win7 one. I have now got AS 4.5 installed successfully in the bottle. I added Net Framework and got the same message. Again I ignored it. This time it installed v2 then V2 sp2 and then v3.5sp1.

It now runs and seems OK on initial testing.
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by tatewise »

That .Net Framework installation needs to be added to the how_to:family_historian_v6_on_crossover_wine|> Family Historian V6 on Crossover and Wine.

What exactly is the command or option that must be used?
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by Valkrider »

Mike

The net framework is only required for AS FH runs fine without it.

I will add it in to the knowledgebase.
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by tatewise »

Win XP and Win 7 are supposedly very similar.
The Win XP KB guide says "The Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 needed by AS appears to be integral with the Crossover Win XP Bottle".
So why is it not integral with the Win 7 bottle?

Or is the KB mistaken, and the Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 did need installing in Win XP bottle?

Does AS V4.5 still not install in Win XP bottle?
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by cbuckthorp »

I do have AS4.5 running basically OK with FH6 in a Win 7 bottle in Crossover v 14.0.3 on both my Macbook Pro and iMac (both presently running Lion OSX 10.7.5). I installed AS4.5 into the FH6 bottle and installed Microsoft.NET 4.0 via Crosstie . Microsoft .NET 4 extended and Microsoft. NET 2 .0 also installed.

AS4.5 launches and I have completed a few census entries for the most part satisfactorily (but see below) including adding a jpg image to the source. I am using Method 1 for census entries creating a separate source for each census entry. I have experienced a couple of problems so far.

1. If FH6 is also open I got a FH system crash when AS made the changes to the FH gedcom file and FH tried to reload. If I don't have FH running while I'm using AS the changes are implemented and I can then run FH6 having made the new data additions. Although mildly irritating (I never had this problem with AS and FH5 in XP under parallels and it was convenient to be able switch between AS and FH while inputting to AS sometimes to check data/information) but this is not a big issue for me and I could live with it if I had to.

2. More of a problem though is that I am finding that after AS4.5 has modified the gedcom file, when FH6 reloads all the Last Change Notes for the individual record that has been modified have gone. This has happens each time and reproduces on both my Macbook Pro and iMac. For me I think this would make AS unusable in Crossover if it couldn't be fixed. nb I haven't had the opportunity yet to check that this does not occur in a normal windows environment.

I wonder if Nick Walker or anybody else would have any idea why this is happening? Grateful any help.
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Colin Buckthorp
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by mjashby »

Colin,

Can you clarify whether you have installed FH6 and Ancestral Sources 4.5 in the same Crossover 'Bottle' or have two separate installations? Your first paragraph suggests the same, but later comments/description of outcomes suggest separate.

If you have 2 separate installations, then that is why the Family Historian application crashes when it's left open and you then edit your file with AS; i.e. Wine (Crossover) applications have to be thought of/treated as separate computers which can't (yet) cross-communicate. In Parallels, or any other virtual emulation system (VirtualBox or VMWare) you are working with a full Windows implementation, so the apps work as they would on a physical Windows computer. The only 'solution' using Wine/Crossover apps is to close down FH when using AS; and close down AS when using FH (on the same project). The alternative, to get a closer representation of a full Windows experience, is to install both FH6 and AS4.5 in the same Wine/Crossover application and then install the Plugin that launches AS from within FH, but I believe that also requires some manual Registry editing within the app to get it working.

Your second question is somewhat more unusual. Perhaps it would help if you could give an example of which 'Last Change Notes' are not appearing/have been lost following an AS edit and after you relaunch the FH6 app.

Mervyn
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by cbuckthorp »

Hi Mervyn, thanks yr helpful reply.

Regarding the first issue, I have AS4.5 and FH6 installed in the same Windows 7 bottle labelled Family Historian 6. Your explanation is clear (and I realised that earlier this morning when I wanted to load a second FH gedcom. It automatically exited (not crashed) the first FH file before loading the second whereas in a conventional Windows environment (inc virtual machines) a second application will open). I haven't tried the plug in to launch AS from within FH because , as you indicate, I had read elsewhere on the forum that there appeared to be problems in that area presently. Hopefully this might be sorted eventually. In the meantime I can manage in the way you describe.

As a matter of interest assuming I wanted to run two crossover applications independently of each other but simultaneously, do you know if Crossover allows this? (Apologies, bit lazy here - I haven't checked the Crossover site FAQ's). I am thinking if I wanted to run a second FH application concurrently (not interacting with the first one) I could create a second Family Historian Windows 7 bottle and launch another (different) gedcom file? Not particularly efficient but … :)

Regarding the second problem of AS4.5 losing my Last Change Notes in the Individual Record that has been modified by AS, I have looked at the gedcom file since last night and I can see what is happening. When AS writes to FH6 it updates the last change date to reflect that changes have been made. It is replacing the entire Last Change Date record with the new change date, thus removing the Notes sub-fields in that particular Last Change Date Record rather than only updating the date and time of the last change. Since it now does not see any earlier change dates FH no longer displays Last Change Notes. As I mentioned earlier I don't know if this is a peculiarity in Crossover or a setting in AS that I have missed or a general bug in AS4.5 (although I doubt the latter as I am sure it would have been flagged by others long before already).

thanks again
Colin
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by NickWalker »

cbuckthorp wrote: Regarding the second problem of AS4.5 losing my Last Change Notes in the Individual Record that has been modified by AS, I have looked at the gedcom file since last night and I can see what is happening. When AS writes to FH6 it updates the last change date to reflect that changes have been made. It is replacing the entire Last Change Date record with the new change date, thus removing the Notes sub-fields in that particular Last Change Date Record rather than only updating the date and time of the last change. Since it now does not see any earlier change dates FH no longer displays Last Change Notes. As I mentioned earlier I don't know if this is a peculiarity in Crossover or a setting in AS that I have missed or a general bug in AS4.5 (although I doubt the latter as I am sure it would have been flagged by others long before already).
Hi Colin

I must confess that I didn't know that the last change date could have notes attached until you posted this! The last change date doesn't display as a sub-tree in the FH records window and when I just looked it took me a while to spot that there is an 'Add Last Change Notes' item under 'Add Miscellaneous'. So yes this is a bug in Ancestral Sources and will have been there in my previous 'Gedcom Census' too and no one has reported it in 11 years, probably I assume because 99% of us wouldn't have realised you could add change notes! I just did a search and in 12 years this forum seems to have only one other reference to last change notes which is part of a discussion that Mike Tate had regarding exporting place records to TNG. I'll fix it in the next version of AS. Do you use change notes a lot? If so then probably best not to use AS until the next version appears.

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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by tatewise »

The problem with FH and AS and any other program modifying the Gedcom file is a known problem documented in how_to:family_historian_v6_on_crossover_wine#reported_problems|> Family Historian V6 & Ancestral Sources V4 on Crossover & Wine > Reported Problems.

There are no known problems with running any Plugins except for Backup and Restore Family Historian Settings.
The Windows Script 5.7 must be installed, and COMPUTERNAME configured, as described in the above Crossover & Wine KB advice. No changes to the Windows Registry are needed.

The problem with Last Change Notes I can confirm is an inherent bug in AS that has not been detected before because Last Change Notes are very rarely used.
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by NickWalker »

I wouldn't class it as a bug because it is the way I deliberately designed it, not realising change notes existed :)

I'm not too far off the next version of AS (v5) being beta tested and it wouldn't really be convenient to release a minor update to version 4.5 at this stage, but what I will aim to do is send Colin a slightly modified version of v4.5 to fix this problem for him. Colin: please can you send me an email so I can contact you off the forum?

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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by mjashby »

Colin,

Looks like your main issues are now well in hand, but I'll just pick up on your side question, i.e. the possibility of running two copies of the same software to access different files.

Is it possible? I can't see anything that could/would prevent it, providing your hardware is up to the job, i.e. memory, hard disk space and processing capacity all of which could, potentially, slow down operations. You would simply have to give each Crossover Bottle/Application you create a different identity (name). I don't know if you've checked the physical size of your existing Crossover FH/AS Bottle, but I would suspect it's in the region of 850-900Mb based on my tests with Wine installations, so two similar installations would eat up somewhere in the region of 1.8Gb of Hard Disk space.

There is, of course, a potential complication which mainly applies to the use of commercial software, i.e. the need to observe any relevant Software Licensing Terms, which sometimes preclude the creation of multiple working copies.

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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by cbuckthorp »

Thanks again to all (Nick, Mike, Mervyn) for your quick responses.

As far as Last Change Notes is concerned , yes Nick I use it all the time whenever I make a change. Interesting that few others seemingly do. I've been using FH for 10-11 years now and I never used the feature at all for the first 5 yrs. However I share data on a very frequent basis with others and we invariably get out of sync keeping our respective gedcoms current (I have a huge backlog presently!) based on a an early master file shared way back when. Knowing when and what changes have been made has proved very helpful when we are unravelling disparities or missings in individual records - especially if one or another of us has forgotten to share something (yes it happens ... :) ). I've been using the feature for the past 5 or 6 years on all data entries and I find it very useful.

Nick, my email is ***@***.*** and I much appreciate you offering to send an updated version of AS.

Mike, I've downloaded and installed the plug in to launch AS within FH. I need to deal with COMPUTERNAME and then should be ready to try it out.

Mervyn, thanks yr thoughts on running the two bottles. My iMac uses a 2.7GHz Core I5 processor & has a 1TB drive so probably not a big problem there although the RAM is only 4GB. Will see if things slow down much. Mindful of yr observation regarding the Licence requirements. Thank you again.

best rgds all
Colin
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by NickWalker »

Hi Colin

I believe I've fixed the problem now so I'll be in touch soon. I've edited your reply to hide your email address to protect your privacy.

Cheers

Nick
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by cbuckthorp »

Mike,
Using TextEdit I have edited cxbottle.conf as per following:

;;---------------< User defined environment variables >-----------------
;; Add environment variables that need to be defined in the
;; Wine environment here. They should be in the form:
;;
;; "VARIABLE" = "value"
;; "COMPUTERNAME"="COLINB"
;;----------------------------------------------------------------------
[EnvironmentVariables]
;;"PROMPT" = "$p$g"
"CX_BOTTLE_CREATOR_APPID" = "com.codeweavers.c4.1992"

ensuring smart quotes not ticked in Substitutes Menu. When I try to run the plugin to launch AS within FH it does not run and I get following error message:

[string "C:\users\Public\Applications Data\Calico Pie…]":1997: attempt to concatenate global 'ComputerName' (a nil value). No changes have been made to computer records.

Any ideas ??
Colin
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by tatewise »

Yes, it should look like:
;;---------------< User defined environment variables >-----------------
;; Add environment variables that need to be defined in the
;; Wine environment here. They should be in the form:
;;
;; "VARIABLE" = "value"
;;
;;----------------------------------------------------------------------
[EnvironmentVariables]
;;"PROMPT" = "$p$g"
"CX_BOTTLE_CREATOR_APPID" = "com.codeweavers.c4.1992"
"COMPUTERNAME" = "COLINB"

;; is a comment marker, so all you had done was add a line of comment.
The actual definitions come below the [EnvironmentVariables] tag.
The instructions say "and at the bottom of this section add a new line".
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by cbuckthorp »

... :oops: -How stupid can I get! Thanks Mike. With the line in the correct place, plug in launches AS fine. I haven't actually run AS yet to test that FH doesn't crash when it modifies the FH gedcom, pending the amendments to AS in hand with Nick.

Thanks again
Colin
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by Valkrider »

ColinB

I can confirm that you can have multiple Crossover applications running at the same time. I do it on my MacBook Air.
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by cbuckthorp »

Colin, that's great - many thanks.
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Re: V4.5 on Mac under Crossover problem

Post by cbuckthorp »

Just to confirm that Nick has amended AS4.5 to address my problem of the Last Change Notes. FH6 and AS4.5.1 now working fine in Crosssover. AS launches via the plug in from FH6 and FH reloads the file after AS has modified it without a problem. Thanks again to all for your help in getting me there.
Colin Buckthorp
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