* Birth places etc on Censuses

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Johnr65
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Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by Johnr65 » 22 Jul 2021 09:11

Is it possible to be able to have a drop-down list for places of birth, as there are for other common items?

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by Johnr65 » 27 Jul 2021 08:16

Is it and if so can I do it?

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 27 Jul 2021 08:48

The Place of Birth field in a Census (and elsewhere within AS) autofills as you type. I suspect changing it to a dropdown box would be significant work for the author.

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by tatewise » 27 Jul 2021 10:01

Also, for large projects, it would be an enormously long drop-list even if it only listed Place names from Birth events.
Should such a list also include Place names from Baptism and Christening events?

To be consistent the same drop-list concept would need to be implemented for capturing Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Death & Burial entries, as well as Census.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by NickWalker » 27 Jul 2021 17:14

It wouldn't really be practical to do this because of the huge numbers of places that would have to be displayed in the drop-down list. I've given support to users in the past who have many thousands of places in their files. It might be possible in a future version to have a pop-up dialogue (similar to the one in FH) to choose a place from but it's certainly not a straight-forward change to make.
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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by Johnr65 » 28 Jul 2021 08:16

I only want to have a drop-down arrow not a list of places within it. In my case, I find that very often on the censuses, the people that I add have the same birthplace starting with the head down to the last person/child.
If there was a drop-down arrow, it would save me typing the same place for all the people. It is available for the occupation part in any case?

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by tatewise » 28 Jul 2021 08:37

A drop-down arrow is only any use if it has a list of Place names to select.
However, it is now clear that you only want a drop-list of Place names associated with the people that are in the Census grid.
That may be easier to implement but only Nick can say.

Now your details of a Where Born drop-list for each row in the census grid could be interpreted several ways:
  1. Just the Place name(s) for the Birth event(s) of the person in the row?
  2. All the Place names of all the facts for the person in the row?
  3. All the Place names for the Birth events of all the people in the grid?
  4. All the Place names of all the facts of all the people in the grid?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by NickWalker » 28 Jul 2021 11:37

Johnr65 wrote:
28 Jul 2021 08:16
I only want to have a drop-down arrow not a list of places within it. In my case, I find that very often on the censuses, the people that I add have the same birthplace starting with the head down to the last person/child.
If there was a drop-down arrow, it would save me typing the same place for all the people. It is available for the occupation part in any case?
If, for example, you entered Lymm, Cheshire as the birth place for the first person, when you get to the next person simply typing L will then automatically auto-fill Lymm, Cheshire which is much quicker that clicking a drop-down arrow and then selecting a name from the list.
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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by Johnr65 » 29 Jul 2021 09:10

OK I guess it's not possible.

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by tatewise » 29 Jul 2021 09:24

Did you see Nick's suggestion that after entering the Place name of the Head of household, for the next person you only need to enter the initial letter of the same Place name and it auto-completes?
That is just as quick as clicking a drop-list arrow. There is no need to type the Place name in full.
Have you tried that suggested technique, which is the same as the FH Place name auto-completion?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by Johnr65 » 29 Jul 2021 09:39

Yes, I saw that suggestion, Mike, but as I've just tried it, it doesn't work properly or it doesn't for my tree as if I just type in H I only wanted Hunslet (from the previous child's birthplace) but got Hastings instead!
:oops:

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by tatewise » 29 Jul 2021 09:56

I think Nick would have appreciated that feedback from the outset and will no doubt investigate why that is happening, because he clearly believes it should auto-complete with Hunslet.
Had you also entered Hastings earlier in the grid or never entered Hastings for a long time?

However, if you continue and type u after the H does it auto-complete Hunslet?

There were Place name auto-complete discussions during FH v7 beta testing that were not completely resolved if I remember correctly.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by Johnr65 » 30 Jul 2021 08:41

Mike, my tree is upwards of 29000 people now and obviously there are a lot of birthplaces involved with them, Hastings is a popular place in my tree but none of the people in the Hunslet census had anything to do with Hastings, the 1st one was born in Bermondsey and the rest in Hunslet.

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by tatewise » 30 Jul 2021 09:55

I think that was the kind of scenario discussed during FH v7 beta testing.
It was never clarified whether the Place auto-complete should offer the most used Place first or the most recently entered.
In your case, it sounds like Hastings is the most used Place starting with H whereas Hunslet is the most recently entered.
But did you try entering Hu which should then auto-complete with Hunslet unless you have some other much used Place names starting with Hu such as Hull.

BTW: The same issues should affect FH as well as AS.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by RS3100 » 30 Jul 2021 11:22

I may be wrong, but I've always thought that the place name autocomplete works on alphabetical priority. I have Barking and Basildon in my project. If I type B as the first letter in the place field, autocomplete fills the field with Barking. If I type A as the second letter, it remains as Barking. But when I type S as the third letter, it changes to Basildon. If Basildon is the place I require to be in the field, tabbing out of the field causes Basildon to remain as the place entered. If I want a different place in that begins with the letters "Bas" in the place field, I keep typing until it either populates with the desired place, or if the place is not already in the project, until I have typed it manually. That seems to me to be quite cognitive and as Mike describes using the examples of Hastings and Hunslet. It is also far quicker (for me anyway) than having to reach for a mouse and select or scroll through a drop-down list, as it simply involves typing and tabbing.

I seem to recall from previous entries that I have made though, that the field only auto-populates with place names that are already in the project. That seems quite obvious, but what I mean by that is that if you enter a previously unrecorded place name for the first person in a census entry for example, and need to re-enter it for subsequent individuals in the same entry, it has to be entered in full each time, as until the current entry has been saved that place is not "stored" in the project and will not auto-populate further fields. This may be what John is asking about?

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by tatewise » 30 Jul 2021 11:55

Please perform a few more experiments and you will find it is based on most used Place names.
The Family Historian Sample Project has the following Place names, with their usage shown on the left:

Code: Select all

3   Bath, Somerset, England
1   Bletchley Park, Milton Keynes,  Buckinghamshire, England
1   Bodmin, Cornwall, England
1   Boynton Beach, Florida, USA
3   Brighton,Sussex, England
10  Bristol, England
2   Wellington, New Zealand
1   Westernzoyland, Somerset, England
3   Whanganui, New Zealand
5   Winchester, Hampshire, England
If you enter a Place using B then it auto-completes with Bristol, England and not Bath, Somerset, England
If you enter a Place using W then it auto-completes with Winchester, Hampshire, England and not Wellington, New Zealand

In your example, I suspect Barking is simply used more often than Basildon and so is chosen for auto-completion.

Your final point about a new Place name is probably correct and something Nick may want to consider.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by Johnr65 » 30 Jul 2021 13:52

Maybe it is alphabetical but based on the places in the project.

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Re: Birth places etc on Censuses

Post by tatewise » 30 Jul 2021 14:30

No, it is not alphabetical, as I have just explained, but based on usage.
Yes, it is based on Place names in the Project, which may be why you are having the problem when entering Census details where the birth-place does not yet exist in the Project.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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