Family Historian User Group

I have two custom facts that I would like to reorder that do not have a date. They are both at the bottom of my list of facts, but one should be before the other. The one on the top has an arrow to move it up, but not down. Is there a way to move it? Both are for an after-death fact.
I have seen something about this in another thread, but I am not sure where it was.
Thanks for the help.

When you created the custom fact types did you give them both a Normal Time Frame of Post-Death? It should be possible to arrange them in either order if they are both undated but both in the same Time Frame.

If they are definitely both set to post-death can you give some screenshots of the fact definitions and the Facts tab of the Property box where you are trying to re-order them?

The way to force them into a specific order is to give them a Sort Date which is a sub-feature of the Date Entry Assistant.

Using the up/down arrows to move Facts without Dates cannot be guaranteed to retain your chosen order.

I, too, use a number of undated custom Facts with 'Normal Time Frame' set to 'Pre-Birth' and 'Post-Death'. At times, quite often, after adding such a Fact the up-down arrows are greyed-out.

To make the arrows show I click 'Sort Family and Events in Date Order'. (Property Box Toolbar: Menu Button (cog): Sort Family and Events in Date Order, or Edit Menu: 'Re-order Events By Date'.

If you really want to force the order then use the All tab where the arrows are always enabled, and you can even break the 'Normal Time Frame' rules.
However, Sorts Dates are a more reliable solution and their primary purpose is to provide a sort order for identically dated or undated facts.
See the Help page Date Entry Assistant Dialog: Separate Sort Date.

I have not needed to set a Sort Date for my undated Pre-Birth and Post-Death Facts. Once I have set their position they have always stayed in my order of choice.


Mike,

Using the All tab does not work well in the circumstance that I encounter.

I have done a little experimentation.

After using the Alt tab to move the Fact it has not changed its position in the Facts Tab listing. Still greyed-out up-down arrows.

Change Focus to another person, then Focus again on the person concerned, the Fact now has the desired position. The up-down arrows now show and the Fact can be moved as desired.

Jean, please read the Help that explains all about the fact sorting features.
Yes, the 'Normal Time Frame' plays an important part and so do the Fact Dates.
You don't have to set the position of such facts. They will auto-sort by themselves.

'Sort Dates' are needed when those things are equal ~ same 'Normal Time Frame' and same Fact Date.
Otherwise, FH does not know how to sort facts with the same 'Normal Time Frame' and same Fact Date.

The Facts tab can give a false impression because it always sorts the display by 'Normal Time Frame' and Fact Date.
However, it doe NOT sort the facts in the database into that order unless you use one of the auto sort commands.
See Sorting Children, Spouses & Facts into Date Order but that has not yet been updated for V7 Sort Dates.

Mike,

I do all that is listed on the link that you supplied.

I do make use of Sort Dates where required but the Facts I am writing about have no dates because they are, e.g., a summary of occupations.

I am very fussy about the order of these on the Facts Tab so I sort them manually so that they appear in the same order for every individual.

I always give a date to a dateable Fact; a precise date or circa, between, etc.

I think you are saying you cannot add a Sort Date to those Occupation summaries because they have no Date.
You are mistaken...

If you are fussy about the order then set a Sort Date for each of those Occupation summary facts with no Date.
The Sort Date need only be a year or it can be a month & year or a full date.
It can be added to any fact even if it has no Date defined by using the Date Entry Assistant dialogue.
That will guarantee they are kept in the preferred order without needing to use up/down arrows.
That is all explained in the Help page article.
e.g.

Sometimes you may want to enter a sort date on its own - that is, without entering any other kind of date. To do this, select the Date tab. Leave the year field blank, tick Separate Sort Date and enter the sort date you require.

The only quibble I have is with the phase "select the Date tab" which means double-click the Date field to open the Date Entry Assistant dialogue.

Thank you Mike.

I understand and appreciate your comments.

Now that FH uses Sort Dates that is a useful addition. (V7 brought my long-forgotten TMG Sort Dates to the Facts Tab Listing. A pleasant surprise.)