Family Historian User Group

I believe I misunderstood the following from CP help (which means I need to redo all of my source titles!). The quoted section can be found here: https://www.family-historian.co.uk/help ... ialog.html

Whenever you create a Source record, from a template or not, it will need a record title. This is the name by which that Source record is known within Family Historian (this record title should not to be confused with the title of a book or document, which the Source record may itself represent). When you see a list of Source records, the record title will be the name shown for each Source record. Thinking up new names for record titles, is time-consuming and tedious. Moreover, when giving Source records names, it is desirable to be as consistent as possible, so that you can easily find similar Source records, and so that you know where to look for a given source in a list of Source records.

I think this sentence was particularly misleading: "When you see a list of Source records, the record title will be the name shown for each Source record." I took this to mean long title field of the Source record.

Can someone explain what this is about?

Generic sources have a Title and an optional Short Title. If you define a Short Title for a source, that is used to identify that source in the list of Source Records. If you leave Short Title blank, Title is used as the identifier in the Source Records List.

Templated Sources have only a Title (generated according to the Template definition). This Title is used as the identifier in the Source Records list.

Thanks for the response.

Templated Sources have only a Title (generated according to the Template definition). This Title is used as the identifier in the Source Records list.

Attached is a screenshot of my sources showing three created from Source Templates. Each has both a Short Title and a Title. How does that comport with your statement above?

Can you post details of

1. The relevant template definitions
2. The column definitions for your Source Records list. (edited to correct auto-correct )

Also, could you click on the + beside one of the sources so we can see all the fields?

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 14:55

2. The column definitions for your Source Records link.

Will there be one? I thought the first column was automatic.

BEJ wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 14:51

Attached is a screenshot of my sources showing three created from Source Templates. Each has both a Short Title and a Title.

Sorry to jump in, but the display in the Records window is determined by Tools > Preferences > Records Window > Use Short title for Source record names if available. I think that option is selected by default. This means that as your templated sources have both Title and Short Title then the short titles will be displayed.

jelv wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 15:09

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 14:55

2. The column definitions for your Source Records link.

Will there be one? I thought the first column was automatic.

Should have read Source Records Link -- fixed in the original.

LornaCraig wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 15:11

This means that as your templated sources have both Title and Short Title then the short titles will be displayed.

But how did they acquire that Short Title? Templated Sources don't get a Short Title by default...

The Source Records column is automatic and displays the Short Title by default in preference to the long Title field.

That is governed by Tools > Preferences > Records Window > Use Short Title for source record names if available.
So untick that option to always show the long Title in the Source Records column of the Records Window

Although not recommended, there is nothing to stop Templated Sources from using the Short Title as well as the Title.
It simply needs to be customised into the Property Box/Citation Window.
Probably, a DEA could fill it in too.

tatewise wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 15:20

Although not recommended, there is nothing to stop Templated Sources from using the Short Title as well as the Title.

Are there any real advantages to doing so? Record Title is used by default to identify the source in records lists, queries etc. It isn't used anywhere else, as far as I know. If Short Title is defined for a Templated Source, either it isn't used any where or (if the relevant preferences option is set) it is used in place of Record Title. So essentially only one of them at a time is useful, and Record Title is automatically generated so less work to use than Short Title. IMO.

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 15:50

Are there any real advantages to doing so? Record Title is used by default to identify the source in records lists, queries etc. It isn't used anywhere else, as far as I know. If Short Title is defined for a Templated Source, either it isn't used any where or (if the relevant preferences option is set) it is used in place of Record Title.

I didn't say there was any advantage, just that Short Title was possible, whereas you said Templated Sources have only a Title.

The Short Title (not the Title) is used by default to identify the source in records lists, queries, etc.
Depends on Tools > Preferences > Records Window > Use Short Title for source record names if available ticked by default
There is nothing to stop both Title and Short Title being displayed in any lists, queries, etc.
See standard Query > Sources and Citations > Source Records - All and Sources for GIven Record.

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 15:50

Are there any real advantages to doing so?

I only use generic sources but I find the short title very useful.

1. It takes up less column width in the Records window (and in the 'Sources for' pane attached to the Property box) than the full title so it can all be seen without adjusting column positions.
2. By using a naming convention which puts surnames first, followed by forenames, in the short title I can quickly search using that as a filter, to see all the sources I have for a particular individual or couple.

tatewise wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 16:24

I didn't say there was any advantage, just that Short Title was possible, whereas you said Templated Sources have only a Title.

I later qualified my statement to say Templated Sources don't have a Short Title by default, probably because there's no need for it (unless you're mixing Generic and Templated Sources, and that way IMO lies madness).

The Short Title (not the Title) is used by default to identify the source in records lists, queries, etc.
Depends on Tools > Preferences > Records Window > Use Short Title for source record names if available ticked by default

So: What Lorna said.

There is nothing to stop both Title and Short Title being displayed in any lists, queries, etc.
See standard Query > Sources and Citations > Source Records - All and Sources for GIven Record.

To what end? It's a serious question -- I'm a big fan of using products as designed, and of keeping things simple, and just because you can, it doesn't mean you should. I can't envisage a scenario in which a Templated Source needs both (unless you're mixing Source Types -- and I refer you back to my not entirely-tongue-in-cheek reference to madness).

LornaCraig wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 16:36

I only use generic sources but I find the short title very useful.

1. It takes up less column width in the Records window (and in the 'Sources for' pane attached to the Property box) than the full title so it can all be seen without adjusting column positions.
2. By using a naming convention which puts surnames first, followed by forenames, in the short title I can quickly search using that as a filter, to see all the sources I have for a particular individual or couple.

For Generic sources, I find it invaluable for the same reasons. I think the Record Title serves the same purposes for Templated Sources.

I'm not saying there is any particular benefit just contesting some of your claims that it isn't used when several standard Queries do use both forms of Title.
IMO Lorna's use of Short Title could be just as beneficial for Templates Sources in addition to the Record Title.

tatewise wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 16:48

I'm not saying there is any particular benefit just contesting some of your claims that it isn't used when several standard Queries do use both forms of Title.

Those queries existed in the same form in V6 before Templated Sources were introduced, so of course they use both forms of Title.

IMO Lorna's use of Short Title would be just as beneficial for Templates Sources in addition to the Record Title.

I configure Record Title to serve the same purposes (minimise column width, using a convention to enable quick searching). Generating Short Title manually is more error prone.

I configure Record Title to serve the same purposes (minimise column width, using a convention to enable quick searching).

I guess it depends how and where you want to use the (long) Record Title. My short titles would be a bit too concise for my liking in reports so I prefer a slightly more descriptive long title.

However I take your point about the automatic generation of titles in templated sources avoiding user error. If I were starting out with FH now I would probably be using templated sources and it would not have occurred to me to think about using short titles.

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 16:41

(unless you're mixing Generic and Templated Sources, and that way IMO lies madness).

Even partly tongue in cheek, you are directly contradicting CP in the FH help:
It's all a matter of personal preference of course, but I never use the Short Title, even for Generic Sources. Having taken the plunge and largely converted my main project to use my own custom Templated Sources, I am extremely comfortable with mixing the two types. I can use templates for my main source types, and have structured data and highly consistent titles and footnotes, but keep generic sources for the large number of one-off types that don't easily fit a template so are probably not worth converting.

The only caveat I would apply is to not mix the two types for similar sources, as that does present challenges for displaying or querying data consistently.

Mark1834 wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 17:38

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 16:41

(unless you're mixing Generic and Templated Sources, and that way IMO lies madness).

Even partly tongue in cheek, you are directly contradicting CP in the FH help:

Repeating myself from earlier, just because you can, doesn't mean you should...

It's all a matter of personal preference of course, but I never use the Short Title, even for Generic Sources. Having taken the plunge and largely converted my main project to use my own custom Templated Sources, I am extremely comfortable with mixing the two types. I can use templates for my main source types, and have structured data and highly consistent titles and footnotes, but keep generic sources for the large number of one-off types that don't easily fit a template so are probably not worth converting.

The only caveat I would apply is to not mix the two types for similar sources, as that does present challenges for displaying or querying data consistently.

If you're extremely disciplined, you may not hit any problems -- but if you're extremely disciplined, and a user of FH before V7, you've probably got a structured method of creating generic sources, in which case Templated sources might hold less appeal.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do re Sources in V7. I have a highly structured set of Generic Sources (created from templates using a plugin), so I could stick with that method and ignore the FH templates. (Contrary to what has been said elsewhere, using Generic Sources doesn't preclude the use of DEAs if the DEA is written appropriately, so that isn't an issue for me; and Exporting for my own website or for Cousin Bait on Ancestry etc is much of a muchness whichever route I go). If I do go with Generic Sources, I'll continue to use Short Title as a Finding Aid. If I migrate to Templated Sources, I'll use Title as the Finding Aid, and not use Short Title.

Whist many people don’t use Short Titles I think we’re agreed that IF they are used the benefit is that they provide a concise display and sorting aid in the Records window. But the OP apparently doesn’t want them to be used in the Records window (and the solution is to change the option in Tools>Preferences>Records Window). So I am wondering what other purpose he had in mind?

We don't know yet what the OP wants to achieve, or how his Templated Sources are configured...

LornaCraig wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2023 17:29

I configure Record Title to serve the same purposes (minimise column width, using a convention to enable quick searching).

I guess it depends how and where you want to use the (long) Record Title. My short titles would be a bit too concise for my liking in reports so I prefer a slightly more descriptive long title.

Using Templated Sources, you can have a more detailed Bibliography and/or footnote entry for a source; the Record Title (IIRC) isn't included in reports.

Using Templated Sources .... the Record Title (IIRC) isn't included in reports.

That's why I'd be interested to know what the OP is using Short Titles for. I wondered if it was for reports but, as you say, the templated source record Title isn't used in reports. At least, it's not used by default - perhaps it can be configured. (In V7 for generic sources there is still the option to use either the full Title or the Short Title in the Footnote format.)

"When you see a list of Source records, the record title will be the name shown for each Source record." -- CP Help files
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It appears from the replies to my post that others were also unclear about CP’s help text, posted above, regarding display of the FH7 Source Record Title (SOUR.TITL) and Short Title (SOUR.ABBR). As shown in my previously posted screenshot, I prefer to display both Short Titles and Source Record Titles in my records window.

1. It takes up less column width in the Records window (and in the 'Sources for' pane attached to the Property box) than the full title so it can all be seen without adjusting column positions.
2. By using a naming convention which puts surnames first, followed by forenames, in the short title I can quickly search using that as a filter, to see all the sources I have for a particular individual or couple.

My rationale for displaying both matches the reasons stated by LornaCraig. My Short Title naming convention mimics my file/media names, offering the “who,” “what,” “when,” and “where.” (Note that I modified the column layout of the screenshot for posting and do not normally display both titles side-by-side.) I simply copy the file/media name and paste it into the Short Title field to minimize errors, then add some punctuation not allowed in filenames. Short Titles let me know at a glance the focus individual, family or place, the timeframe, and the type of source.

With the release of FH7 I only use templated sources, but I’ve not had the energy to reconfigure sources created in FH6. Therefore I do “mix” Source Types. How does one redo FH6 sources as FH7 templated sources without having to relink all of the existing citations to other records?