Family Historian User Group

I have like probably most people a lot of unknown named ancestors/relations. When I go to Individual records listing, the Unknown's show as first in the list. How can they be relegated to either the bottom of the list or at U?

The easiest solution is to give them the Surname Z, i.e. enter /Z/ in their Name: box.

When I have an unknown, like a wife of John Brown, I enter her as “?? /Brown Nee ??/“, that way she sorts with the other Browns.Also if you click or Alt-click on any column heading, you can sort them in the order/reverse order of that column.

When FH sorts data, it considers blank values as lower than any defined value. Blanks are therefore at the top when sorting in ascending order but at the bottom when sorting in descending order.

There are more sophisticated ways of defining a sort in other software. For example, Excel will always put missing values at the bottom (but not null values that result from a calculation). For "proper" databases, the treatment of null data varies by implementation, as it is not defined in the SQL ORDER BY statement, and not all implementations support the later NULLS FIRST/LAST qualifier.

Personally, I would like to see an option in FH to always place null data at the end of a sorted list, but it would be a new program feature that would need a New Wish List Request. I strongly dislike entering false data just to overcome a software limitation.

tatewise wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2023 12:26

The easiest solution is to give them the Surname Z, i.e. enter /Z/ in their Name: box.

That wouldn't always work - in my old day job, our small statistics group of four people had two with the initials PZ (Zemroch and Zyman)

Gowermick wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2023 12:27

When I have an unknown, like a wife of John Brown, I enter her as “?? /Brown Nee ??/“, that way she sorts with the other Browns.Also if you click or Alt-click on any column heading, you can sort them in the order/reverse order of that column.

I think John is talking about completely blank names that are listed as [unamed person] which is why he suggested sorting amongst the U surnames.

Mark1834 wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2023 12:35

tatewise wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2023 12:26

The easiest solution is to give them the Surname Z, i.e. enter /Z/ in their Name: box.

That wouldn't always work - in my old day job, our small statistics group of four people had two with the initials PZ (Zemroch and Zyman)

True, but easily solved by using /ZZ/ which I agree is not ideal but the simplest that I can think of other than using the Alt key reverse sort, which unfortunately cannot be customised. Has anyone got a better idea?

New Wish List Request - a Tools > Preferences > General option to "always place null data at the end of sorted lists throughout FH". Easy to define, so onto the list for voting and consideration by CP...

tatewise wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2023 12:45

Gowermick wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2023 12:27

When I have an unknown, like a wife of John Brown, I enter her as “?? /Brown Nee ??/“, that way she sorts with the other Browns.Also if you click or Alt-click on any column heading, you can sort them in the order/reverse order of that column.

I think John is talking about completely blank names that are listed as [unamed person] which is why he suggested sorting amongst the U surnames.

I realise that Mike, but was simply suggesting that they are rarely truly unknown, without a link somewhere (Like the wife of John Brown). I’m sure a suitable and relevant name can be thought up. If not, then /ZZ/ would fit the bill

BTW when I first started adding ‘unknown’ wives, I used ‘?? /??/‘, but quickly realised, like OP, that they
1. all sorted together and
2. I couldn’t easily identify who was who.
Hence my use of husbands surname as part of their surname.
The added bonus is that by searching for ‘Nee ??’, I can quickly identify which marriages still need to be found.

I've found a technique for unknown maiden names which seems to work well with FH. I use the husband's surname enclosed in brackets, thus: [Cooper]. I add "Mrs." as the name prefix which clarifies the relationship in reports.

The bracketed names sort at the beginning of the list in the project window and serve as a useful (sometimes reproachful) reminder of what still needs to be done.

Robert

Interesting replies. Preferred Robert Jacobs method but without the brackets.

Where I have a wife and I don't know the maiden name I also use the husbands name in square brackets.

If I know the maiden name but not the first name (e.g. I've found the mother's surname from a child's birth registration in the GRO index) I use [x].

I would have thought that the easiest solution would be to leave the field/information blank when something is unknown. That's what I do.

I agree with Trevor on this -- if I don't know somebody's name, I'll leave it blank.

Blank is fine in the focus window and diagrams where you can see the context in which the individual exists. But I find blank hopeless in lists like the records window, query and plugin result lists. Having the name in brackets makes it clear it's not their actual name, but does give an indication of where they fit in the tree.

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2023 11:23

I agree with Trevor on this -- if I don't know somebody's name, I'll leave it blank.

That's what the OP has previously been doing, but his problem is that all the [unamed person] records are sorted at the top in the Records Window (in ascending order sort) and he wants a way to move them to the bottom, or at least somewhere else, while retaining the ascending alphabetical order.

Hence Mark's suggestion above :

New Wish List Request - a Tools > Preferences > General option to "always place null data at the end of sorted lists throughout FH". Easy to define, so onto the list for voting and consideration by CP...

In the meantime, [unnamed persons] sort to the bottom if you Sort the column Descending.

jelv wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2023 11:34

But I find blank hopeless in lists like the records window, query and plugin result lists. Having the name in brackets makes it clear it's not their actual name, but does give an indication of where they fit in the tree.

IN records list and queries, I always include a column for the first couple of spouses and the family as a child to give context.

Going back to the original enquiry, adding a custom column to the individual records window with the expression
would give a column that can be sorted to put the unknowns to the bottom.

Using my method of putting the surname in [ ], this expression works:

I tend to leave unknown peoples' name entries blank, but if I have a first name, say of someone's wife, I put their married name in brackets, i.e. [Smith]. As I tend to work from the Individuals tab anyway, all unkowns appear first followed by the names in [ ] as a reminder that there's more work needed there.

Mark1834 wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2023 12:56

New Wish List Request - a Tools > Preferences > General option to "always place null data at the end of sorted lists throughout FH". Easy to define, so onto the list for voting and consideration by CP...

Mark, I cannot find a New Wish List Request posting for this. Has it slipped through the net?

I think you are proposing that null data setting applies regardless of whether sorting is Ascending or Descending.
i.e. It is absolute and not simply a change to the sort order rules which would put null last for Ascending but first for Descending.

Yes, I thought we had defined it already, but I've added the proposal to the New Wish Lists thread. I think this one is easy to define, so doesn't need overcomplicating.

Is there currently a workaround to sort individual records in the records window so that those with a blank Ahnentafel number (or surname) are at the bottom? I tried playing around with a custom column for sorting purposes based on the below, but couldn't get it to work reliably...

jelv wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2023 12:58

Going back to the original enquiry, adding a custom column to the individual records window with the expression

Code: Select all

=TextIf(Exists(%INDI.NAME%),%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%,"ZZZ")

would give a column that can be sorted to put the unknowns to the bottom.

Using my method of putting the surname in [ ], this expression works:

Code: Select all

=TextIf(LeftText(%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%,1,"") = "[",Text("ZZZ" . %INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%),%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%)

A horizontal ellipsis … in the surname field should sort at the bottom for all languages is using UTF-8.

… as one character not … as 3 full stop!

The following Column Expressions should work.

To sort names such that those without a surname are last with an ellipsis substituted:
=TextIf( %INDI.NAME:SURNAME% = "", Text( "…, " . %INDI.NAME% ), %INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST% )
i.e. If the Surname does not exist then put "…, " before the Name otherwise use the Surname_First qualifier.

To sort Ahnentafel numbers such that those without a value are last:
=NumberIf( AhnentafelNumber(FileRoot(),%INDI%,1) > 0, AhnentafelNumber(FileRoot(),%INDI%,1), 99999 )
i.e. If the Ahnentafel number exists then use it otherwise substitute 99999.
The substitution has to be a large number in order to retain the numerical sorting of Ahnentafel numbers.
If you try and use text then the Ahnentafel numbers do not sort correctly.