Family Historian User Group

I have noticed over the last few years that I have slowly evolved in the manner that I'm entering my Facts. In the beginning, I would enter the Event such as Birth, Marriage or Military Service, and also provide the sources for each of these. Many of these Events have numerous sources, such as a Marriage Certificate and a Marriage Register, or a Death Certificate and a Burial Record. but I have noticed a change of style, in that I am now listing the document as the Event, and then providing the source of that document. For example, instead of having a Marriage Event with two sources such as a Certificate and a Register - I have a marriage Certificate Event and a Marriage Register Event. The Documents have become my Events. Part of me likes this because I can look at the Facts tab and right away see all the documents I have on record, vs just seeing the events listed as "Marriage", or "Death", until you select it to see the documented sources. On the other hand, my Custom Event List is getting rather lengthy.
I know that there is mostly no wrong way or right way - but - What is the correct way of doing it? How do you go about it? How should it be done? What is the most efficient way, and most importantly - what way does the GEDCOM best support?
Thanks everyone!

IMO recording documents as Events makes recording all the Facts derived from the document more confusing.
Many of the documents you mentioned provide information about not just the principal BMD Event but also the Occupation, Residence, and Relationship of other family members such as father, mother, spouse, or children.
So how do you record those other Facts and apply source citations?

If you don't record Birth and Death events but record Birth and Death Certificate events instead then many of the features of FH and most other genealogy products are rendered useless. e.g. determining whether a person is Living or not.

What would you do with say a family diary or bible full of significant facts?
IMO a 'Diary Event' makes no sense, whereas all the derived Facts with the diary as a source citation works for me.

A recurring theme in recording family history is to be consistent otherwise reviewing and analysing the data gets complex.
So recording documents as sources and life events or attributes as facts is my method and advice.

It is relevant to think about how your data will appear in reports and diagrams and will export to other products or be analysed by tools.

I'd agree with Mike. The whole tenor of the GEDCOM specification is that it records events such as birth, marriage and death and I believe that is standard practice - therefore that is what most people will expect to see. Altering principles like that carries a risk of misinterpretation.

There are occasions when I have, effectively, recorded the date of a document but only when that represents a significant real-life event. For instance, one of my distant relatives was married in San Francisco on 29 October 1903 (that's an event in their records). But of course, you may guess what's coming... The 1906 earthquake destroyed so many official records that any official record of their marriage was lost. Being the kind of careful fellow that he was, the husband decided to re-register their marriage in July 1909. That's a separate event in my files because it's of interest in itself.

So - I have a 1903 marriage event, with the 1909 re-registration document as a source for it; and I have a 1909 re-registration event with the 1909 document as a source for it. Plus me being me - copious notes explaining the story.

The ability to be able to look at what sources are held for each person is valuable, but unless it's clear which events these documents support, it might be inadequate.

I agree with most every point you both made - which is the reason for my post, in that I was noticing my slow drift away from how I suspected FH was suppose to be done. Fortunately, I have been applying source citations for the document (events) and to all the other facts represented in them in the recommended manner, but what I have not been doing is maintaining a measure of consistency. I recognised the problem when noticing that not all marriages were showing up because I failed to have proper marriage events for those that I applied the documents as events.
I started down this path when entering many Dutch Population records, all of which are not really events, but a document similar to citations, etc., but I realise that trying to explain my path down this road only means I am feeling rather chagrined about my drift to the dark side.
Now the question is - How do I undo the few hundred or so records that need to be altered. I know that all the citations attached to the Events are written and applied per FH specification, so I only need to change the events they are applied to.

Thanks so much for clarifying which direction I need to go!

Chris, in your original posting you said you were interested in seeing the documents held in support of facts.

Perhaps you had not considered the All tab. If you double-click any item it alternately fully expands and collapses all subsidiary items. e.g. Double-click the name of the record and all items are fully expanded/collapsed.
That reveals all Source Citations on the right associated with the yellow scroll icon.
The only exception is Family facts such as Marriage and Divorce, which are revealed by opening the Spouse Family record.
I realise that the Source Citations are interleaved with other items so not the easiest to identify.

You may also be interested in another discussion about displaying Source Citation details in the Property Box.
See Property window unsourced facts (21443) that discussed how to show Source Citation and other details on the Facts tab and led to Wish List Ref 593 Property Box, Facts tab, More column features.
The point is that it is possible to customise the Facts tab to display whatever details you want.
So it is possible to include the Source Type or Source Title with each Fact on the Facts tab.
The only caveat is that the display can get very long and need a wide display to show all the details without scrolling.
If after reviewing that posting you are interested in the technique then we can give details of the customisation needed.

Chrisv wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2023 00:31

How do I undo the few hundred or so records that need to be altered. I know that all the citations attached to the Events are written and applied per FH specification, so I only need to change the events they are applied to.

From what you have said it sounds as if you have used custom facts such as Marriage Certificate instead of the standard Marriage fact, or Birth Certificate instead of the standard Birth fact etc. It also sounds as if you have created a Source record for each document, as recommended, and cited that as the source for other facts. So it may simply be a case of changing your custom facts into their corresponding standard facts.

There is a plugin written by Mike which can do this, called Change Any Fact Tag. It will be able to convert many of your custom facts. There will be a complication if your custom Marriage Certificate fact is an Individual fact, because the Standard Marriage fact is a family fact. The plugin can only change an individual fact type to another Individual one, or a Family fact to another Family one.

I absolutely love the ability to customise the Facts tab to display whatever details needed using the Fact Definition Summary Template! That will make all the difference, and I've always wished for a Source Icon in the More field. I will explore this some more, and will probably have more questions later - after I have gotten back on track with my Events. I have used Mike's Change any Fact Tag plugin for other situations, and I know it will be put to good use here. And fortunately, all my custom Marriage events are Family Events, so it should work properly. Is it possible to batch edit a group of the same type of Events? It would make a huge difference if there were.

Also, I have a LOT of Events that are listed as News Clippings and Obituaries. How should these be handled? I have them as Events and then create a source for that Event, and copy/paste that source to any other Facts mentioned in them to others. To me, it seems they should be an Event - in that someone wrote about something and posted it in the newspaper. The Event is the Posting of it, about that person, for the world to see??

If you've used my Change Any Fact Tag plugin, then you should know it changes all instances of the same Fact in one go, unless you apply one of the filters.

It is a matter of personal choice but writing a newspaper article/obituary is much like registering a birth, marriage or death.
They are all a sort of event, but do you want them all recorded as facts?
The point is that the people who wrote the articles or registered the BMD are not the principal person named in the Facts tab.
Those events did not happen to the principal person.
Whereas, the Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Occupation, Residence, Death, Burial, etc, facts did happen to the principal person.

Of course the plugin changes all instances of the same Fact! What was I thinking?
As far as the newspaper articles, no those events did not happen to the principal person writing the article, but they did happen to the pricipal person being written about. Doesn't that make it a "NewsClip" Event? If someone were to write an article in a newspaper about me, it would certainly be an Event in my life! At least in my humble opinion. Seriously, though. It does seem to me that an article about someone would be an Event, but I do understand it is a grey area.

If someone were to write an article in a newspaper about me, it would certainly be an Event in my life!

Yes, but what would have triggered them to write the article? There would have been some reason. Did you win a prize? Were you involved in a traffic accident? Have you just had a book published? They are writing about an event in your life, or describing your activities. So I make the newspaper article a source, not a fact. The fact is what the article is about, and the article is a source of the information about that fact.

Yes, but what would have triggered them to write the article? There would have been some reason. Did you win a prize?

Nicely stated, Lorna. When you put it like that, it certainly seems to fall into the category of a Source, not an Event.

Chris

Expanding on Lorna's comment have you had a look at a YouTube video I did some time ago about using Auto Source Citation? It may give you a quicker way of working in the future.

https://youtu.be/PrBOcHAwc1o

I have two "events" that do not have another event they can become and simply need to go away. I have deleted one of them from my Fact Types list, but that does not delete them from my Properties box Facts tab. How would you recommend deleting these events from here, which should not have any effect on the sources associated with them - correct?

You click the big red X Delete Fact icon in the Facts tab.

If you have many instances of them then use the Change Any Fact Tag plugin Delete option.

Tools > Fact Types... only changes definitions and has no effect on your Project GEDCOM database.

I know you can click the red X to delete the fact for the individual, but I am looking for a way to group the hundreds of individuals scattered throughout the project, and be able to delete the facts in a more streamlined manner.

You replied before I finished adding the Change Any Fact Tag option.

Oh, great! I did not realise the plugin could also delete them. Thanks!

Valkrider, thanks for the video link. I have shied away from using that feature because I didn't clearly understand how to use it. The video really helps to understand it better. I will definitely give it some more effort to use that feature!