Family Historian User Group

I would like to keep all of my research (including notes) in FH, but I have been struggling with the undo/redo feature and was wondering if this is a bug... when I go about adding text to a note, I may need to undo to remove the last thing typed or copied/pasted. Sometimes it 'steps back' one correctly, but other times it deletes a huge chunk of my note which then cannot be retrieved using the undo/redo functions.

This is very frustrating and is keeping me from doing all of my notetaking in FH as the undo/redo is not as reliable as other programs like Word. I don't want to have to close/reopen notes frequently in order to have FH 'save' them. Is this a bug that should be reported to Calico Pie? Has anyone else experienced a similar issue?

Thanks in advance.

You could report it to CP but since it sounds like it is difficult to repeat reliably it may be hard to diagnose.

While entering rich text Notes, you can click the Apply button lower right and then the Save icon in the main toolbar top left.
That will save your changes to the GEDCOM database file but the Notes window stays open for more changes.

I think that I have been caught out a couple of times by the Undo taking away more than I'd expected. But on reflection, I think I've always been able to ReDo to get back to my (flawed) starting point. So I can't add anything, I'm afraid, except to thank Mike for suggesting Apply followed by Save - I think I may have only ever clicked Apply in the past, without clicking Save. I suspect it's a crucial point...

Yes, Apply will only update the Note field within FH and won't be saved to the GEDCOM until the next Autosave unless you click the Save icon.

You don't have to save the GEDCOM file in order for the changes to the note to be committed. Just clicking Apply updates FH, so if you mess up further changes, just close the Rich Text Editor and the note will be as it was when you clicked on Apply. It's not updated the GEDCOM file yet, but that is not necessary, and what Adrian was doing was fine (IMO, of course...).

Mark, if Autosave is enabled the user has no control over when FH saves to GEDCOM. Manually using Save simply ensures any changes are preserved ASAP even if something (FH, PC, etc) crashes. It is still possible to reverse all the applied Note changes by using the Edit > Undo command, which I've found to be very reliable, even after the Save operation.

Exactly - it’s an extra layer of protection, but that’s no different to any other change to project data. I just wanted to avoid anybody getting the impression (as Adrian might have done) that it was required in order to achieve what the OP was requesting.

Mark1834 wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022 14:23

Exactly - it’s an extra layer of protection, but that’s no different to any other change to project data. I just wanted to avoid anybody getting the impression (as Adrian might have done) that it was required in order to achieve what the OP was requesting.

Erm - yes, possibly... I think that when I read Mike's suggestion of using the Save command, I was approaching it from a belt-and-braces viewpoint and recognised this as an extra layer of protection. I think also that when I've wanted that extra layer in the past, I've actually closed the Note window down before Saving, without realising that I had access to the Save command even from that Note window. (Must be too many Modal windows around).

The other useful thing was that I'd not really sorted out (in my own head) exactly what Apply did. Knowing that it's different from the Save to the GEDCOM file helps me to work out that difference in my own head - rightly or wrongly I assume that we're actually talking about 3 versions of the Note. I think therefore that this is the way it works - and I'm writing this out for my own benefit.

• V.1 is the original in the GEDCOM file.
• V.2 is the (possibly updated) version of the Note in the GEDCOM file held in memory.
• V.3 is the version of the Note currently being updated. (Adjust all the preceding if it's a new item).
• Ordinary typing just updates v.3.
• Apply updates v.2.
• Save updates v.1.
• Autosave updates ... V.1 certainly. Does it update v.2? Presumably because it would seem desparately tricky if it didn't do an across the board Apply as part of the logic.

As I say, this is really to get my own head straight on this - but I have to say that if anyone had asked me the difference between Apply and Save beforehand, I have no confidence that I could have given a sensible reply. (Assuming my understanding is now sensible).

Save/Autosave simply saves the version of project data currently in memory to the GEDCOM file. Changes made in the Rich Text Editor are not committed to memory until you click on Apply, so are lost if you close the editor without saving, even if an autosave has occurred.

This is different to entering text directly into the Property Box (including the Note field), as no separate Apply step is necessary, and changes are committed to FH memory as soon as the focus changes to another field (corrected in edit to clarify).

It's probably easiest to have a mental model of the Rich Text Editor as a separate component with its own memory (that's probably more or less what it is). Apply copies the contents of this memory to the main FH program, but until you click on Apply, it's not yet in FH to be saved.

Mark1834 wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022 16:41

Save/Autosave simply saves the version of project data currently in memory to the GEDCOM file. Changes made in the Rich Text Editor are not committed to memory until you click on Apply, so are lost if you close the editor without saving, even if an autosave has occurred. ...

Oh!

Mark1834 wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022 16:41

... It's probably easiest to have a mental model of the Rich Text Editor as a separate component with its own memory (that's probably more or less what it is). Apply copies the contents of this memory to the main FH program, but until you click on Apply, it's not yet in FH to be saved.

Ah... Instinct was dragging me towards that view but logic said... "Surely not..." Thanks for that - perfectly clear - once you know....

Mark1834 wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022 16:41

Apply copies the contents of this memory to the main FH program, but until you click on Apply, it's not yet in FH to be saved.

Hopefully this isn't too dumb a question, but does clicking on OK do the same thing as clicking on Apply?

Bill

As my first boss said, no such thing as dumb questions - just dumb answers!

Yes, OK saves and closes, Apply saves and keeps open.

Thought that was probably the case. Just wanted to be sure.

Thanks,
Bill

I've experienced the same problem, I've just done a test using WordPad and a note window in FH.
Typing a set of four lines in wordpad (Test1 etc) I pasted each line separately into FH, when pressing undo all lines disappeared, yet in Wordpad I could go back line by line and then go forward line by line, no problem !!

I'm not sure that comparing various text processing tools helps but here goes.
Windows Notepad ~ Edit > Undo (Ctrl+Z) alternately removes/inserts all newly entered text.
MS Word ~ Undo (Ctrl+Z) removes one line at a time.
FH Rich Text ~ Undo (Ctrl+Z) depends on how text was entered...
If typed character by character it removes one character at a time.
If chunks are pasted then it removes the whole chunk.
However, subsequently, it may remove all new text that has been entered, so it does become unpredictable as suggested.

Thanks for all of your replies. I also appreciate the discussion regarding OK versus Apply.

tatewise wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2022 18:39

I'm not sure that comparing various text processing tools helps but here goes.

Mike, I agree. However, the FH rich text functionality seems to try to replicate a word processing workflow, at least to a basic level, hence my disappointment with the undo/redo function.

I have narrowed down that the problem seems particularly bad when using tables in notes. The table functions in general leave a little to be desired in FH7, so for the moment I think I will stick with external programs for keeping notes in tabular formats.

I note that version 7.0.18 includes an update to the functionality of the notes window:

Pressing ‘Undo’ in the Note Window sometimes caused more changes to be undone than one would expect. This has been fixed.

It is incredible of Calico Pie to keep on top of things like this. I'm not sure if my forum post influenced the update, but it is much appreciated either way.

In general, I find independent developers far more responsive than bigger ones, especially if the software is very specialized. It's why, whenever possible, I use such programs rather than those from Microsoft etc. CP is, in general, far more responsive than many other developers - issuing updates on a fairly regular basis. It's one of the many reasons I made the move to using FH as my tree software of choice.

sbell95 wrote: ↑

03 Dec 2022 02:06

I note that version 7.0.18 includes an update to the functionality of the notes window:

Pressing ‘Undo’ in the Note Window sometimes caused more changes to be undone than one would expect. This has been fixed.

It is incredible of Calico Pie to keep on top of things like this. I'm not sure if my forum post influenced the update, but it is much appreciated either way.