* Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

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PyreneesPirate
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Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by PyreneesPirate »

Hello Fhug users,

I have progressed a bit with the Template for Civil Registration Index and DEA's for BMD Birth Death Marriages etc (with a few little issues noted). Lumped under three Sources with Citations to each Individual. On completion, the Text from Source data attached to each Citation is displayed as a string like normal, but is there a way of automatically generating the Text from Source output like the following attachment with a header and a bit of colour?

Screenshot 2022-08-08 165611.JPG
Screenshot 2022-08-08 165611.JPG (294.16 KiB) Viewed 1090 times
I use AS for all my data input on standard events and I think that gives you the option of the type of output in Text to Source (string or boxed) albeit, you still have to embellish the output. But for other events, it would be nice to be able to design your own text boxed output.

I have used Jane's Convert Text from Source to Rich Text and Tables a few times, but you still need to reformat the data for a nice presentation and I think this only works for Sources and not Citation Text to Source?

I started to take a look at autotext.........is this where I should be looking? I seem to be spending an awful lot of time reformatting and trying to represent my current data in a better format than actually trying to grow my tree!!

Any pointers on this would be very much appreciated.

Regards
PP
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tatewise
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by tatewise »

I hope you consulted the FHUG Knowledge Base Sources and Citations in Version 7 (for Upgraders), especially Should I Use Source Templates? the explains the pros & cons of converting to Templated Sources versus sticking with Generic Sources.

Is there a way of automatically generating the Text from Source output like the following attachment with a header and a bit of colour?
Yes, use Tools > Manage Autotext... > Autotext for Plugins > UK Birth Index to include formatting in the definition.
See the existing predefined ones installed into FH.

I have used Jane's Convert Text from Source to Rich Text and Tables a few times, but you still need to reformat the data for a nice presentation and I think this only works for Sources and not Citation Text to Source?
What only works for Sources? Jane's plugin or reformatting of Text from Source data?
Rich text reformatting works for any long text fields anywhere whether Notes, Text from Source, etc.

I seem to be spending an awful lot of time reformatting and trying to represent my current data in a better format than actually trying to grow my tree!!
That is what the Knowledge Base article warns about.
BTW: Generic Sources can benefit from Autotext, Source-Driven Data Entry, etc, without using Source Templates.
Last edited by tatewise on 09 Aug 2022 09:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected Manage Autotext advice following Helen's feedback
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Tools > Manage Autotext > Autotext for plugins

Edit the relevant autotext (in your case Record Civil Registration Data (UK) > UK Death Index

Format it as you please, keeping the text between each pair of {} the same --but you can move it around or format it, putting it in a table, colouring it, making it bold, whatever you choose. The DEAs need the {XXX} tokens to substitute with the relevant values, but doesn't care about the formatting as long as the formatting starts and ends outside the { and } (it can include them, but should not be confined within them or the tokens may not be recognised).

Whatever you do, it won't affect sources you have already created.

P.S. Mike has pointed you to the wrong Autotext -- as you're using the DEAs, you need Autotext for plugins.
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

PyreneesPirate wrote: 08 Aug 2022 15:32 I have used Jane's Convert Text from Source to Rich Text and Tables a few times, but you still need to reformat the data for a nice presentation and I think this only works for Sources and not Citation Text to Source?
PP
Yes, the plugin only works for Text for Source in Sources, not Citations.
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

tatewise wrote: 08 Aug 2022 15:58 I hope you consulted the FHUG Knowledge Base Sources and Citations in Version 7 (for Upgraders), especially Should I Use Source Templates? the explains the pros & cons of converting to Templated Sources versus sticking with Generic Sources.
BTW: Generic Sources can benefit from Autotext, Source-Driven Data Entry, etc, without using Source Templates.
As PP is clearly using Source Templates (because they're using DEAs written to work with Source Templates), I'm not sure where this is relevant to the question?
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by tatewise »

I thought it relevant as PP is converting from V6 Generic Sources to V7 Templated Sources, has problems using Jane's plugin, is "spending an awful lot of time reformatting and trying to represent my current data in a better format" and requests pointers. However, I accept that the process may have gone too far to backtrack.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Jane's plugin is irrelevant if PP follows my advice, which also means that the reformatting (for new sources) is done only once per Source type.
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by PyreneesPirate »

Thanks you very much Mike and Helen for your input.

I'm probably not the only FH user that likes trying out the new features of an upgraded product. Isn't that why the product is upgraded in the first place? (apart from bug fixes of course).

For the moment, I will keep using AS for all the standard events in the Generic format (I have so many Sources, that to convert them all to Template would take an age I think). I made a decision to use the new Templates and DEA's for the BMD Registration Index, Newspaper Articles and Journals etc, the more non Standard items. The Newspaper Articles worked very well and the BMD items work well although lumped. I am a splitter by nature :P How this pans out when I want to export the data to my TNG website I don't know. Mike I haven't gone too far down the road as you say, but I am willing to give the new features a try.

Like I have seen written in these pages before, there doesn't seem to be one correct way for all users!! Anyway back to my query.

I have selected Manage autotext and then Autotext for plugins and cloned the UK Birth Index to make a UK Birth Index 2. Please see below.

Screenshot 2022-08-08 214839.JPG
Screenshot 2022-08-08 214839.JPG (261.48 KiB) Viewed 1024 times

How does this then link to the UK Birth Registration Source and the following UK Birth Record Civil Registration DEA, so that it produces the new Text from Source in the Citation? I tried a new BMD registration the DEA and it produced the original Text to Source comma delimited string in the window, so nothing changed. I looked almost everywhere to try and find a way of linking / using the new UK Birth Index 2 for this process. It is probably something very easy I'm sure........but where?

Thanks in anticipation,

PP
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

The existing DEAs look for a template with a specific name, so yours isn't used.

Two choices: save the original with a different name and Rename yours in its place. Or delete the original and rename yours.

If you delete the original and don't replace it with yours the DEA will recreate the original, so you can always get it back.

Actually three choices. You can simply edit the original.
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by NickWalker »

I know this doesn't directly answer anything that PP has discussed (as he is discussing the non-standard sources) but as Ancestral Sources has been referred to I thought I'd make a couple of points.

Firstly, AS allows you to use templated sources too, whether the ones built into FH7 or custom ones. AS can also produce rich text or plain text source text and comes with a number of auto-text templates to help with this. I don't think there is a particular problem with having a mix of plain and rich text (or generic and templated sources if you wish). I swapped over to using rich-text 12 months ago and that hasn't caused any issues for me.

Also I am very close to releasing a new version of AS for testing which includes a powerful facility to convert census plain source text into rich text and optionally to convert the census generic source into templated sources too. It's only the time it takes me to update the AS Help file and a summer holiday that have got in the way of releasing it.
Nick Walker
Ancestral Sources Developer

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources/
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by Mark1834 »

Just to comment on the limitations of Jane's formatting plugin - I had a go at a version for my own use that works on lumped citations as well (primarily converting lists of parameter=value lines to a table with a specified font, so they appear on screen and in print with the same column widths). It's actually quite difficult to do elegantly, as FH can't track individual citations in the same way as it does for sources. I've got a version that works tolerably well, but it's a bit clunky as it relies on copying the text to be formatted to the clipboard, then searching lumped citations for matching text, which it reformats according to my defined pattern.
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Re: Source and Citation Text to Source Rich Text & Tables

Post by PyreneesPirate »

Thanks Helen, Nick and Mark for your comments.

Silly really.....not realising I just needed to name the file the same as the original and copy the original to another name :oops: . I have been using FH since V3 I think and like every piece of software that is enhanced, I like looking at the new features and trying them out. Sometimes I am guilty of reading too much into how the program works and not realizing that in this instance, a good old rename would have achieved the result!! The RTF feature is good and I have been trying to perfect OCR on old paper clippings to help in the conversion, much better presentation.

I have also used AS for a long time and would have been stumped without it, especially with the Census Information and how it populates FH. The ability to reimport an already completed AS Source and re-engineer it, to a level decided by the user is a fantastic idea. I think the regeneration of Text to Source data to RTF is a no brainer, but whether to convert Generic to Template I am still unsure. So thanks Nick for your effort, I will be using it and contributing when it is available.

I would also be interested in what you have Mark re the RTF conversion for the Citations.

Cheers
PP
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