* Entering gravestone with two names on it
- Kai Chandler
- Diamond
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Entering gravestone with two names on it
I'd like to record a gravestone with two names on it into FH7. Each name has birth and death dates to record.
I've used Ancestral Sources to create a burial record for the first name which seems to have gone well but what's the best way to enter the second name?
If I should wish to log another gravestone with two names in future, would there be a better way to proceed?
Thank you!
I've used Ancestral Sources to create a burial record for the first name which seems to have gone well but what's the best way to enter the second name?
If I should wish to log another gravestone with two names in future, would there be a better way to proceed?
Thank you!
- LornaCraig
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
I would simply copy the burial fact of the first person, which you have already created, and paste it to the record of the second person. Then amend the burial date for the second person. (If you have any information in a note to the fact this might also need amending for the second person.)
To copy a fact, select the fact in the facts tab of the first person's Property box then click the Copy Fact icon (immediately to the right of the Add Fact button in the facts tab toolbar.) Then switch to the second person's Property box and click the Paste Fact icon (next one on the right). The souce citation and any associated media will also be copied and pasted.
If you want to cite the same source for birth and death dates of the second person you can create the birth and death facts in FH (if they don't already have those facts) and then copy and paste the citation, using the Copy Citation and Paste Citation buttons in the Sources for pane.
To copy a fact, select the fact in the facts tab of the first person's Property box then click the Copy Fact icon (immediately to the right of the Add Fact button in the facts tab toolbar.) Then switch to the second person's Property box and click the Paste Fact icon (next one on the right). The souce citation and any associated media will also be copied and pasted.
If you want to cite the same source for birth and death dates of the second person you can create the birth and death facts in FH (if they don't already have those facts) and then copy and paste the citation, using the Copy Citation and Paste Citation buttons in the Sources for pane.
Lorna
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
The only caution I would add in respect of Lorna's suggestion is "are you sure the second person is buried there?" if you are going to create the Burial record.
I have several instances where a gravestone mentions two people, but a trawl through the National Burial Index shows a record for the burial of the second person at a completely different location. I also have, albeit very few, instances where a gravestone has multiple names (ten in one case) and there is no way I can believe that this number of people have been buried in the single plot. Unless I have a NBI or Parish Burials record for the "extra" names on the gravestone, I use a Memorial fact to record the information - in effect, identical to a Burial fact but with a different sentence structure.
I have several instances where a gravestone mentions two people, but a trawl through the National Burial Index shows a record for the burial of the second person at a completely different location. I also have, albeit very few, instances where a gravestone has multiple names (ten in one case) and there is no way I can believe that this number of people have been buried in the single plot. Unless I have a NBI or Parish Burials record for the "extra" names on the gravestone, I use a Memorial fact to record the information - in effect, identical to a Burial fact but with a different sentence structure.
Brent Tapscott ~ researching the Tapscott and Wallace family history
Tapscott & Wallace family tree
Tapscott & Wallace family tree
Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
Brent,
Watching some TV programme, where archealogists were excavating an old graveyard, they created a 3D image of where people were found, and I was amazed at the way a fair number of bodies were stacked in a single plot. ( I don’t think I saw as many as 10, but it was a. lot more than I expected )
I do like your idea of using a Memorial fact, better than just attaching the image as media to the individual(s)
Watching some TV programme, where archealogists were excavating an old graveyard, they created a 3D image of where people were found, and I was amazed at the way a fair number of bodies were stacked in a single plot. ( I don’t think I saw as many as 10, but it was a. lot more than I expected )
I do like your idea of using a Memorial fact, better than just attaching the image as media to the individual(s)
Mike Loney
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
- johnmorrisoniom
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
I create a source for the headstone itself and add an image (If I have one) with a transcription in the text from source. I the add a source citation to each fact gleaned from the transcription. I do not use the burial fact because, as others have said, the person may not be buried there.
- ColeValleyGirl
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
Ditto, except I cite the source for a Death fact -- I can be pretty sure the individual died! Although I have seen at least one recent MI where a name has been present with a birth year but no death year, in which case I assumed somebody was saving on the engraving costs by getting as much done in one go as they could.johnmorrisoniom wrote: ↑28 Jun 2022 07:30 I create a source for the headstone itself and add an image (If I have one) with a transcription in the text from source. I the add a source citation to each fact gleaned from the transcription. I do not use the burial fact because, as others have said, the person may not be buried there.
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
ColeValleyGirl's family history
Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
Sometimes from the inscription you may be able gain a bit of certainty - one way or the other.johnmorrisoniom wrote: ↑28 Jun 2022 07:30 I create a source for the headstone itself and add an image (If I have one) with a transcription in the text from source. I the add a source citation to each fact gleaned from the transcription. I do not use the burial fact because, as others have said, the person may not be buried there.
"Here Lies" (or "hic iacet") is a fairly strong indicator that the stone is close to the burial
"Sacred to the memory of" however - could be either way, although if it is the top name (and not jemmied in to be the top name) it is most probably a burial.
It's the "and also ... and also" where I begin to have my suspicions - particularly if census records indicated that they had emigrated.
Has anyone come across a plot clearly in the centre of a grave yard with a stone inscribed with names, but known that the plot is empty - not even a burial of ashes. That is it is clearly a pure memorial? On the edge of a grave yard possibly - but in the main group of burials?
David
Running FH 6.2.7. Under Wine on Linux (Ubuntu 22.04 LTS + LXDE 11)
Running FH 6.2.7. Under Wine on Linux (Ubuntu 22.04 LTS + LXDE 11)
- Mark1834
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
That's an interesting distinction. From a purely documentation perspective, I would suggest that the more significant question is "where is this person commemorated?" rather than "where are the physical remains of this person? (but recognising of course that this may not be the case for other sentimental or spiritual reasons).
I use the burial fact to cover both those cases where the actual burial is recorded (Burial Register, Cemetery Register, etc) and those where the register is not available but there are reasonable grounds to believe that the person was buried there (e.g. a headstone or other similar memorial).
All our databases will contain errors - dates and locations not being remembered correctly, "irregular" biological parents, etc. We just have to accept that no matter how thorough and pedantic we are with our recording, some of it will still be wrong!
I use the burial fact to cover both those cases where the actual burial is recorded (Burial Register, Cemetery Register, etc) and those where the register is not available but there are reasonable grounds to believe that the person was buried there (e.g. a headstone or other similar memorial).
All our databases will contain errors - dates and locations not being remembered correctly, "irregular" biological parents, etc. We just have to accept that no matter how thorough and pedantic we are with our recording, some of it will still be wrong!
Mark Draper
- Kai Chandler
- Diamond
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
Many thanks to Lorna and others for your excellent advice. I'll try things out and come back if I have any more questions!LornaCraig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2022 19:02 I would simply copy the burial fact of the first person, which you have already created, and paste it to the record of the second person. Then amend the burial date for the second person. (If you have any information in a note to the fact this might also need amending for the second person.)
To copy a fact, select the fact in the facts tab of the first person's Property box then click the Copy Fact icon (immediately to the right of the Add Fact button in the facts tab toolbar.) Then switch to the second person's Property box and click the Paste Fact icon (next one on the right). The souce citation and any associated media will also be copied and pasted.
If you want to cite the same source for birth and death dates of the second person you can create the birth and death facts in FH (if they don't already have those facts) and then copy and paste the citation, using the Copy Citation and Paste Citation buttons in the Sources for pane.
- LornaCraig
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
In your case as there are only two names on the stone you might be fairly sure they are both buried there. As you had already created a burial fact for one of them using AS my reply was aimed at answering your original question about how to repeat the entires for the second person.
However I agree with what others have said about not assuming a person is buried in a plot simply because they are commemorated on the headstone there. For example a child who died in infancy might be mentioned on the same headstone as their parents, even though the cemetery didn't come into use until many years after the child had died.
It's also true that dates on the stone may be wrong. I have seen some cases where the date in the parish burial register is one or two years earlier than the date of death recorded on a gravestone. The stone might have been erected several years later, when another family member was buried, and relatives didn't remember the date of death correctly. In these cases I stick with the date in the burial register. (Taking care, of course, to be as sure as I can that the register and the stone are referring to the same person, not two people with with the same name who died on different dates.)
However I agree with what others have said about not assuming a person is buried in a plot simply because they are commemorated on the headstone there. For example a child who died in infancy might be mentioned on the same headstone as their parents, even though the cemetery didn't come into use until many years after the child had died.
It's also true that dates on the stone may be wrong. I have seen some cases where the date in the parish burial register is one or two years earlier than the date of death recorded on a gravestone. The stone might have been erected several years later, when another family member was buried, and relatives didn't remember the date of death correctly. In these cases I stick with the date in the burial register. (Taking care, of course, to be as sure as I can that the register and the stone are referring to the same person, not two people with with the same name who died on different dates.)
Lorna
- Kai Chandler
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
noted, thanks Lorna!
- Robert Jacobs
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Re: Entering gravestone with two names on it
I have a distant relative by marriage — a Great War veteran — who died at sea a few years after the war. He may have been a suicide. The family had an ordinary headstone with name and dates erected in a Massachusetts cemetery.