Family Historian User Group

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 10:26**

Hi
Not sure if this is a FH question or a Microsoft OneDrive one but am trying to upload a medium backup file to OneDrive with the new extension fhbak. Every time it reaches the total, the message pops up saying files are in sync, disappears and starts reloading the same file again. The file never actually uploads just keeps repeating the upload.

Thinking the file had a glitch in it, deleted it, did another backup, and same thing happened.

Have got in touch with Microsoft and waiting for a reply, but wondered if anyone else had a similar problem.

Can't see if the new extension would cause a problem but never had a problem with the zip files.

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 10:30**

Joan, when you say "trying to upload a medium backup file to OneDrive" are you simply using Windows File Explorer to copy the .fhbak file to OneDrive, or have you set the FH File > Backup/Restore > Medium Backup to write directly to OneDrive?

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 11:06**

Hi Mike
Thanks for a quick reply. It is set to FH File > Backup/Restore > Medium Backup to write directly to OneDrive.
Joan

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 11:31**

Does it save OK if you choose a non-OneDrive folder?

If that saves OK, then does the .fhbak file Copy to OneDrive OK?

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 13:33**

Mike
File copied to non OneDrive folder no problem. Copied the file to OneDrive and same thing happened. Went through the upload, then went looking for changes, restarted the upload.

I have a case booked with the Microsoft so am dealing with their questions too.

Very weird

.
Many thanks
Joan

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 13:58**

Presumably, your OneDrive is not full

I have used the FH Backup command directly to E:\Mike\OneDrive\Documents\ and it was fine, and 7-Zip could extract the files OK.

Is your OneDrive backup folder path quite long and is your Project name quite long?
Could the full path length from drive letter through .fhbak file to subsidiary Media folders exceed 255 characters?

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 18:12**

Mike
Drive is definitely not full. The path used is the same as below, which has always worked, the only difference is the extension to 'fhbak' .

Just a thought, could Nortons have caused a hiccup? There was an upgrade very recently and I had to go via the website to download the new version. Was thinking of switching Nortons off and try to copy the FH file to OneDrive that way.
Joan

"C:\Users\2chop\OneDrive\Family Historian Projects\FH BACKUPS\FH Project Backup (med) - OneNameStudy-Istance - 2022-03-19 2109.zip"

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 19:08**

I don't understand why Nortons would only object to .fhbak being written to OnerDrive and not elsewhere.
Try switching Nortons off to see if it makes any difference.

I don't think it should matter but do your OneDrive Settings have Files On-Demand enabled or not?
It is usually better disabled.

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 19:34**

Yes Mike, files on demand is disabled. I did try changing the extension to .zip, ignored the warnings and went ahead to upload the file, but it made no difference.

I did spot that the sync circle is showing on the projects folder, which is strange because nothing is syncing and OneDrive is saying 'Up to Date'. (see screenshot).

It's a puzzle.

Joan

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 20:01**

I would expect the sync circular blue arrows to appear on that Family Historian Projects folder because that contains the new backup in the FH BACKUPS folder that should have a similar icon.
It is odd that OneDrive is saying Up to Date.
If you right-click on ist cloud icon what files are being synced?

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 21:08**

As Mike has said on many occasions before in response to FH issues, does a PC/laptop Restart (NOT a Shutdown and boot up) resolve this? Maybe OneDrive has a file lock happening somewhere.
Worth a try.

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 21:14**

Interesting. I tried to do a Medium backup - I also use OneDrive for my FH data, and was told it was not possible to do so to the location (I don't have a particularly long path), but if I went to the root level of OneDrive it worked!
[Edit] Ignore this, I dismissed the error too quickly, I was trying to save the backup within the project it was backing up! Not really sure why it picked there! I don't usually backup via this laptop, but on my PC to an external drive.

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 21:44**

Neil, if you try and backup a Project inside its own Project folder then naturally that is not possible. It becomes recursive!
The error message says: "The backup file cannot be created within the project folder that is to be backed up."
But that is not Joan's problem.

Try Restart can do no harm.

Posted: **04 Apr 2022 21:53**

tatewise wrote: ↑
04 Apr 2022 21:44
Neil, if you try and backup a Project inside its own Project folder then naturally that is not possible. It becomes recursive!
The error message says: "The backup file cannot be created within the project folder that is to be backed up."
But that is not Joan's problem.

Yes, I was too quick to dismiss the error without reading it. I was seeing if I could duplicate the problem, and then that happened.
I saved the backup elsewhere, then tried again with a short file name, and actually read the error, and saw the mistake I was making.

Joan - is Norton just Anti-Virus or is it Firewall too? Looking at a Microsoft troubleshooting page, they suggest turning off AV and/or Firewall temporarily. Of course if it's a full Norton package you may have already done this and I am sure Microsoft will be working through a few of these suggestions with you anyway.

Posted: **05 Apr 2022 08:34**

Silly question, but is your Document folder not backing up to Onedrive? My laptop backs up/mirrors my Document folder to Onedrive so therefor I don't have to back anything up to Onedrive I just have to save my files to the Document folder (basically where all programs save there files) and it is also on Onedrive.

Posted: **05 Apr 2022 09:29**

It is clear in Joan's screenshot that standard Desktop, Documents, Pictures folders as well as Family Historian Projects are all synced on OneDrive.
However, that provides little if any backup protection against Project disruptions, accidental deletions, plugin upsets, etc.
Such changes will quickly propagate to all synced copies. So separate backup protection is still a wise precaution.

Posted: **05 Apr 2022 14:05**

I hesitate to suggest this because I'm sure there will be many of the belt and braces school who dislike the idea but...

Why sync / back-up the back-ups to OneDrive anyway?

My back-ups (auto prompted for by program closure) are stored on a part of (in my case) D: drive that is not synched to either OnDrive or Dropbox. The only situation in which my way doesn't work is if I have a disk crash of D: and I want a prior version of my FH files. It's possible, of course. Though as my main FH files are synched to Dropbox, I get a limited number of previous versions anyway (30 days worth in my case, I believe).

Posted: **05 Apr 2022 14:26**

I tend to view OneDrive etc as just a useful means to get at files from more than one PC; as a backup they have issues:

From Sophos Security: World Backup Day: 5 data recovery tips for everyone!

The 3-2-1 rule suggests having at least three copies of your data, including the master copy; using two different types of backup, so that if one fails, it’s less likely the other will be similarly affected; and keeping one of them offline, and preferably offsite, so you can get at it even if you’re locked out of your home or office.

Many people keep backups so they are always online, such as in a live cloud storage account or on a network-attached storage (NAS) device. But if your backups are accessible online, they’re also accessible to any crooks who compromise your account or your network. Indeed, ransomware crooks make a point of searching for online backups and wiping them out as part of the attack, hoping to force you into paying up.

Remember the 3-2-1 rule: think of online snapshots and real-time backups as just one of the two backup types you keep, and make sure you always have at least one other backup that’s offline. Whether you’re at home or at work, remember to unplug offline backup devices and put them somewhere safe unless you are in the process of backing up or restoring, and remember to logout explicitly from cloud backup accounts when you aren’t using them.

Encrypt your backups so that if they’re lost or stolen, the thief can’t simply read out all your precious data for themselves. Windows [Pro] has BitLocker, Macs have FileVault, and Linux has LUKS and cryptsetup, which can be used to create encrypted drives and partitions.

Posted: **05 Apr 2022 15:59**

Surely, Master copy, backup in Document folder, Onedrive copy of Master copy and Onedrive copy of Backup is 1-2-3-4 copies and you will probably have a few other Backups in your Document folder and hence Onedrive as well. I have only had 2 catastrophic hard drive failures in my many years using PC's and have yet to lose any information and much prefer my Onedrive set up than the older hardrive/hardrive/memory key. Don't get me wrong I now have premium Microsoft 365 and feel a wee bit safer with the Ransomware (hopeful) protection and Personal Vault.

Posted: **05 Apr 2022 17:10**

William, the 3-2-1 principal recommends that the three copies are on independent media.
Your 4 copies are probably not independent, so the same 'risk' will destroy more than one copy.

I imagine your master Project copy and Document folder backup are both on the same C drive in the same PC.
So common risks such as a disk crash, PC failure, fire, flood, theft, lightning strike, etc, will eliminate both those copies.

The two OneDrive backup copies are both subject to the same cloud failure risks that would eliminate both copies.

So strictly speaking, you only have two independent copies.
The extra duplications do protect against some risks, such as accidental deletion of data or files.
That is probably better than many, but does not fully satisfy the 3-2-1 criteria.

Posted: **05 Apr 2022 17:49**

If we're comparing backup regimes.... here's mine. Although I admit it won't be possible for most people, there may be ideas that others can take away.

Primary data: on my PC 'hard disk'. (It's an M2 drive but serves the same purpose).
Synchronised: to OneDrive using a Microsoft 365 subscription. This allows me to use my files on a laptop when I'm out and about and is also an off-site copy just in case. (If my house burns down, I'll be grateful for any data I can still access and I doubt my combusting PC will tell OneDrive to delete my files )
Also synchronised: via OneDrive to a NAS device in my home, and another NAS in a friend's home. So, another off-site copy, plus a copy I can access locally if my PC needs rebuilding.
Entire PC 'hard disk' and registry backed up daily (overnight) to my NAS (in a location that isn't synchronised via OneDrive).
Entire NAS contents, including OneDrive and backup data synchronised to a second NAS at the other end of my house.

You'll note that at no point do I use the FH backup facilities.

If I need simply to revert to a previous version of my data, I go:

To the most recent snapshot, if it is dated 'today'
To my most recent overnight backup

or further back if necessary (I retain full backups for a month).

If my hard drive dies, or I need to build a new PC, I use OneDrive synchronisation to get to the most recent data state.

If my house burns down, and none of my PC or two NASs survive, I can use OneDrive synchronisation or the copy at my friend's house. (If I get my laptop out of the burning building, it will be largely up-to-date anyway via OneDrive).

Posted: **05 Apr 2022 18:46**

tatewise wrote: ↑
05 Apr 2022 17:10
I imagine your master Project copy and Document folder backup are both on the same C drive in the same PC.
So common risks such as a disk crash, PC failure, fire, flood, theft, lightning strike, etc, will eliminate both those copies.

After all of the above my cloud back up will still give me 2 copies, where as everything after your PC failure would probably eliminate anyone who has made all their backups on site.

The two OneDrive backup copies are both subject to the same cloud failure risks that would eliminate both copies.

Cloud failure, I have my PC copies, so still safe, especially as Microsoft back up your Onedrive account on servers around the world (Normally 3 ro 4 sites in case of natural disasters or war) so one cloud failure would normally still have 2 or 3 more copies on other servers. And this would also solve the very unlikely event of PC and Cloud going down.

That is probably better than many, but does not fully satisfy the 3-2-1 criteria.

I think it does given the different site Onedrive backups, but I'll give you that if you don't count that. Although still way safer than someone doing it all on site, even if they have a Raid set up, backed up to two more individual hard drives and also to two memory keys for good measure. Technically 6 individual copies and yet a ransomware attack, fire, flood, lightening strike ortheft would probably wipe all of them out.

Posted: **06 Apr 2022 13:44**

Apologies for not getting back sooner and thank you all for your input. My problem is still not resolved and am also working with a member of the Microsoft OneDrive team.

OneDrive did a reset and I did a small backup ie gedcom. Two screenshots attached, (1) of the 'filing cabinet' showing it had been uploaded and (2) of the same file in FH Backup fold online in OneDrive.

My question is, should the icon online in One Drive be a picture of the 'filing cabinet' as it appears in the screenshot? I

I previously did try a medium backup and changed the extension to 'zip', but it made no difference.

Posted: **06 Apr 2022 14:33**

The current .fhbak files should have the filing cab icon and file Type: Family Historian Backup
The standard .zip files should have the zip folder icon and file Type: Compressed (zipped) folder

: BackupIcons.png (12.18 KiB) Viewed 2062 times

But the online folder can probably only provide icons for standard file types and mine looks just like yours.

That small backup seems to have synced OK, yet you say there is still a problem. Please explain.

Posted: **06 Apr 2022 14:54**

I would agree, after a quick experiment, that if you look at (the online) OneDrive folders through the browser (i.e. use the View Online option), then what you see are icons as known to the MS online servers, and not as per what you will see using your PC's File Explorer to look at the version of OneDrive on your hard-drive.

For instance, in my case, the online version of a .txt file shows a standard text icon, whereas the hard-drive version has a different icon from Notepad++.

My .fhbak file shows a vanilla, no detail icon on the online version, and a filing cabinet on my hard-drive version, because the first shows what MS know about the icons, and the 2nd what my PC knows.

The .zip file shows an icon with a horizontal zip on the online version, and a vertical zip on my hard-drive version. Why MS can't be consistent, I've no idea.

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