Family Historian User Group

Hello ! Though a long-term used of fh, now on v7, there is one function which I cannot find, though it might be buried somewhere ? I use Word to construct tables having census years across the top (1861 to 1911) and family members down, and the recorded age and occupation in each cell. This is invaluable in summarising family development over the years, but I cannot find out how to incorporate this in fh, which is brilliant in every other respect. Any suggestions ?

Welcome to the FHUG John.

I would have to investigate further regarding copy & paste of Word tables into FH rich text Notes.

Why not construct the tables directly in FH V7 using its rich text word-processing features available in all Note fields and in the Text From Source fields.

I would think it should be possible to create that 'table' as a Query Result Set.
There are several similar Queries in the Downloads section of the FHUG Knowledge Base.

I do a similar thing, but I use Microsoft Excel Spreadsheets.

Instead of using the generic FH "Census" Fact Type I have created a Fact Type for each Census Year and also the 1939 register e.g. "Census 1841".

It is then quite easy to create a query to create a table. Below Is a clip from mine (not a lot in it as I am only just starting creating census sources).
I have Surname, Given Name, Birth and Death years ( reminds me which censuses they should be on) Then for each census it gives the age recorded.

Just one caveat - for the age to display you have to ensure you enter it in the Property Box - Fact Tab.

The headers shown are the default generated by the query, however they all editable, simple 1841, 1842 etc. would be more compact.

I didn't mention occupation - this doesn't look quite as easy.

Mike may be able to put me right on this, but unless I have not looked in the right place, I can't find Occupation shown as a sub-field of, for example the Census 1851 Fact. Ancestral Sources creates an "Occupation" Fact with the same date, but that is not linked with the census record.

I have attached a screen shot of the fields set up for the query table - the fields list shows where the age is picked up from.

Little.auk: I would strongly urge you to use standard Census Events for the reasons explained in the FHUG Knowledge Base advice Recording from a Census Record.

For your Query replace %INDI.EVEN-1841_CENSUS.AGE% with %INDI.CENS[year=1841].AGE% and likewise for 1851, 1861, etc.
Replace your 1939 Register event with a standard Census Event and see Family Historian Census Event for UK 1939 Register.

%INDI.OCCU[year=1841]% works similarly in the Query.

See FHUG Knowledge Base Download Ages on Census that uses the same technique as does several other downloads.

Facts such as Census Event and Occupation Attribute are as independent of one another as any other Fact.
When capturing Census details, AS can also create Birth Events with the same Citation but they are also separate and not subsidiary to the Census Event. FH/GEDCOM does not support facts nested in that way.

Little.auk wrote: ↑

04 Mar 2022 15:10

Instead of using the generic FH "Census" Fact Type I have created a Fact Type for each Census Year and also the 1939 register e.g. "Census 1841".

I would echo Mike's response to this. You are getting no benefits at all from using fact types for each census year. If you use the generic census fact the year of the census is already part of the date attribute of the census fact.

Ancestral Sources creates an "Occupation" Fact with the same date, but that is not linked with the census record.

No the occupation fact is linked to the census fact because they are both linked to the same census source. So if an individual has a census fact linked to a source and they also have an occupation fact linked to the same source then you know that the occupation fact specifies what their occupation was on that census. As an added bonus, they both have the same date too.

Nick,

Bad choice of words, but the point I was trying to make about occupation was that, since AGE is an attribute of the census fact, it is quite straightforward to create the census Query table showing ages. at each census.

Occupation, however, is a separate Fact. Census and occupation may be linked to the same source, but that doesn't make it easy to create an expression to display someone's occupation alongside their age for each census in the query.

Little.auk: If you use the [year=9999] index as I suggested, then assuming there are not multiple Occupation Attributes in the same year then the occupation is shown alongside their age for each census as you desire.

Little.auk wrote: ↑

04 Mar 2022 18:56

Occupation, however, is a separate Fact. Census and occupation may be linked to the same source, but that doesn't make it easy to create an expression to display someone's occupation alongside their age for each census in the query.

May not be helpful in what you are trying to achieve, but I have AS record the Occupation in the local Note field of the Census fact rather than create a separate Occupation fact - this ensures I don't have a series of Occupation facts for a person on my webbite (for each Census year) that all say the same thing!. The Note is then easily retrievable with a Query on the Census facts.

I don't use AS or DEAs, but do exactly that manually, as I think repeated similar occupation facts look ugly. I record the occupation exactly as stated in the Census note and create a separate Occupation fact as appropriate.

As no age is shown on 1939 Register, I don't enter one, but FH shows calculated age in Brackets
What is the expression to show this calculated age in the table?

I assume it is based around EstimatedAgeAt(), but I can't find correct Syntax needed to enter 1939 census date

jbtapscott wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2022 07:18

May not be helpful in what you are trying to achieve, but I have AS record the Occupation in the local Note field of the Census fact rather than create a separate Occupation fact - this ensures I don't have a series of Occupation facts for a person on my webbite (for each Census year) that all say the same thing!. The Note is then easily retrievable with a Query on the Census facts.

That is very helpful, can this be set to be automatic in AS or do you do it manually

tatewise wrote: ↑

04 Mar 2022 17:13

%INDI.OCCU[year=1841]% works similarly in the Query.

Is there a [date= ????] filter, if so what date format does it use ?

Little.auk - it is done automatically by AS providing you make a change to each of the relevant templates in the Census Templates settings (viz. it is not a single setting in the AS Options). I can provide more info in need.

I actually have Relationship to Head of Household, Marital Status & Occupation all recorded in the Census fact Notes field for each individual.

No, unfortunately, there is no [date=????] index option otherwise I would have mentioned it.
It would get quite complex to cope with the wide variety of Date formats: Simple, Period, Range, etc.

The format for median age at a particular date is =EstimatedAgeAt( %INDI%, DateAt( 1939, 9, 29 ), AVG ) for 29 Sep 1939.
Use MIN or MAX instead of AVG for minimum/maximum age. It relies on the Individual having a Birth Date.

jbtapscott

More information would be helpful, as I have not tried modifying templates yet.

Little.auk: Within AS, select Census and then open Tools / Census Templates... Set the Type, Region and Year or Description as required. You are then presented with, on the left, a list of Census Columns and once you highlight one of these, the Column Type info relevant to the selected column appears on the right.

On the English & Welsh census the info presented is pretty self-explanatory. If you select the Census Column for Occupation (wording will vary depending on Census Region / Year), details will be displayed on the right and you will see a Column Type of "Occupation" - this needs to be changed to "Generic" and the Recording option set to "Append to census event local note". You can then save the change (assuming you don't want to change anything else!).

The Help for the Census Template Editor has some pretty good information on these settings.

The end result for me is that my local note shows something similar to: "Relationship to Head of Family: Head, Marital Status: Married, Occupation: Wheelwright" for each Census Fact.

Also be aware that you have some control over how AS adds the text to the local notes in the Census Settings page within AS Options. You can specify whether the note title is included, and if there should be new lines or commas between the notes.

Although not necessarily relevant to this issue, the next version of AS will allow the option to record in local notes to also be available for column types that are not generic.

It is encouraging that others find this topic interesting. There is of course no problem in keeping data also in separate Word files, but it does mean inputting the same information twice. I attach an example in which 17 people are tracked through 11 census returns, showing how they progressed. Sadly I am unable to add data from the 1921 census, as ‘findmypast’ can’t find my relatives.

This is a completely different take to what the rest of the thread has revolved around, but I think this may be a solution to your problem.

I use the 'Timeline Grid' devised by Kathryn Grant of BYU (which is really what you have included as an example and is not unique to her). To include it in FH7, I simply create a 'Research Note' for the head of the family (and copy that note into each family member who appears in the grid) and inside that note I create a table using the rich-text formatting features.

This is an example of what one of my timeline grids looks like inside the Research Note:
You can read more about Kathryn Grant's 'Timeline Grid' below. She has an excellent series of videos on how she uses it to solve problems. https://fh.lib.byu.edu/2021/08/17/the-t ... ryn-grant/

Note that this is very much a manual system, but I find that writing everything out in this fashion helps me stay on track and ensure that I'm finding census records for the right family. I can also add customised notes and comments to myself that would otherwise not by generated from a query result set.

The only caveat I would add is that the reporting of these types of notes is not pretty, and there is a requirement to re-jig the font sizes and scaling if you want to print to A4. But if you only want to use it inside FH7 and/or copy/paste to another program, there is no issue.

Thank you Sarah.
That is an excellent example of one of the suggestions I made in my first reply on 3rd March:
"Why not construct the tables directly in FH V7 using its rich text word-processing features..."

Thanks for sharing this, Sarah. I had forgotten about Kathryn's grid. Really must start using it again.

I've created other tables within FH notes and find it easy and convenient

sbell95 wrote: ↑

10 Mar 2022 06:02

This is a completely different take to what the rest of the thread has revolved around, but I think this may be a solution to your problem.

I use the 'Timeline Grid' devised by Kathryn Grant of BYU (which is really what you have included as an example and is not unique to her). To include it in FH7, I simply create a 'Research Note' for the head of the family (and copy that note into each family member who appears in the grid) and inside that note I create a table using the rich-text formatting features.
<SNIP>

Brilliant ! Sarah, many thanks for providing a worked example of this kind of table, so very helpful as in all programming activities. I am currently having a trial run at entering my census trail tables into fh7 as suggested, and can see opportunities for adding more details and links. Looks like a load of work, but well worth it (might even have to get a A3 printer).

Before coming to Family Historian, for many years I used a chart system similar to the 'Timeline Grid' shown above; I called them 'worksheets'. It was a manual system. I created blank worksheets which I then filled in by hand; they were A4 landscape with room for eight census columns. It was a very quick and easy way to store facts for a family group. I gave each worksheet a unique reference so it was easy to make cross-references between family groups. In effect, it was a variation of a Family Group Sheet.

After starting with FH I used a shared note to list the details. Later, when I understood FH's family records and FAMC/FAMS, I created a custom family fact to store the information in the note. The layout of the information is different to my original worksheet but the details are there.

I find that family members prefer this chart layout to reading outline or narrative reports.