* Addresses and commas after house numbers.

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davidf
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by davidf » 20 Jan 2022 22:23

tatewise wrote:
20 Jan 2022 20:29
True, but you could use =Section(%INDI.BIRT.ADDR%,1,"[[") to remove trailing [[text]].
OK, I wonder how tricky it would be to go through all my (active) Diagram Text Schemes and do a complex search and replace to insert the Section( before and ,1,"[[") after all terms which include .ADDR%? Regular expression on the raw file?

Actually since Section is V7 specific, that might not be a good idea for me!
tatewise wrote:
20 Jan 2022 20:29
One solution is to disregard Address fields and put the entire Address & Place in the Place field as suggested in Working with Places and Addresses
I'm tempted, but can see myself wanting to undo the join at some stage - plus a three or four part place is easy but with the address having a much more variable number of parts, the combination could be tough to manage and where necessary slice and dice.

And I still have this nagging feeling about data definitions. "Place" should be an area on a map, whilst "Address" is more like a pin on a map. They are different and should be kept apart - one day FH mapping may reflect this distinction.
David
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by tatewise » 21 Jan 2022 15:23

FH Help Page Private Notes says that the [[private]] feature applies to Address and Text From Source fields, etc. So is the Inc. [[private]] Notes option in Diagrams implemented incorrectly with regard to Address fields? Is it a bug that needs reporting?
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by LornaCraig » 21 Jan 2022 15:33

Yes, I think it is a bug so I'll report it. (I thought I had reported it a couple of years ago but can't find a record of it.)
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by LornaCraig » 21 Jan 2022 17:01

I've reported that apparent bug, and CP have replied saying "Thank you for reporting that. That's an error in the Help. We have logged it."

I hope they just mean it's an error of omission, in that the Help doesn't make it clear the [[private]] part of the address cannot be suppressed in diagrams. I have asked them to clarify, pointing out that as it stands the Help page is correct in saying that [[private]] text can be used in the Address field, and this works in the context of reports. I hope they don't change their mind about that!
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by tatewise » 21 Jan 2022 17:07

Lorna, there are also all the other long-text fields such as Text From Source mentioned in the Help.
It needs to be clarified how the Inc. [[private]] Notes option is applied in Diagrams, Reports, Export > GEDCOM File, et al, regarding all those long-text fields. Preferably the option should apply to all fields in all scenarios.
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by LornaCraig » 21 Jan 2022 17:24

Agreed. I have now sent an expanded version of my reply to CP, emphasising that it's the inconsistency which is a problem. The Inc.[[private]] Notes option should be applied consistently for all long-text fields in all scenarios.
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by tatewise » 21 Jan 2022 17:32

In the FHUG, we bash on about consistent data entry, yet it is one of my pet peeves that FH itself has many inconsistencies and this is one of them.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by LornaCraig » 24 Jan 2022 11:54

Following my reply to CP emphasising the inconsistency in the handling of [[private]] notes they have now said "OK thank you for clarifying that. We have logged it for investigation."
Lorna

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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by tatewise » 24 Jan 2022 12:07

Hooray! I am often disappointed about the lengths we have to go to explain such inconsistencies to CP.
My impression is that such 'features' do not have a global definition and a global library of implementation code.
It seems as if each workspace (Diagrams, Reports, Queries, etc) is coded independently with slightly different interpretations of the requirements for features that are shared by all workspaces.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by cwhermann » 01 May 2022 03:32

Although not pertaining specifically to the placement of commas, this was one of the more recent posts dealing with Addresses and Places. My question may have fit better with older posts like:
Best format of PLACe and ADDRess for Map Geocoding (11937)
Addresses - Suggestion for Best Practice (12965)

but they are so old, I decided to post here and the admins can move if appropriate.

I am in the process of moving from RM7 and trying to establish my data entry “standards” for FH7. I have determined that if I want to utilize the mapping function, I will need to enter [addresses] + [places] in the Place field using the information (as best as I can determine) at the time of the event. I have a significant number of homestead, land buy/sell events, burials, etc. in rural areas that may be 20-30 miles and sometimes in a different county from the nearest current place that Google Maps, et al will map. (some are currently under water due to dammed streams or in the middle of state parks). I realize that for a large portion of the Place records, I will have to enter Latitude/Longitude manually.

My question for this group is regarding the number of place elements. For some US events I have determined I will need 8 comma separated elements, utilizing 4 for the address elements and 4 for the typical place elements.

Is there a limit on the number of comma separated elements in the place field?
Also, I am just beginning to start searching European/Scandinavian records and want to make sure these parameters will fit with typical address/place practices for countries like Scotland, Ireland or Germany for example.
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by tatewise » 01 May 2022 10:57

cwhermann wrote:
01 May 2022 03:32
I have determined that if I want to utilize the mapping function, I will need to enter [addresses] + [places] in the Place field using the information (as best as I can determine) at the time of the event. I have a significant number of homestead, land buy/sell events, burials, etc. in rural areas that may be 20-30 miles and sometimes in a different county from the nearest current place that Google Maps, et al will map. (some are currently under water due to dammed streams or in the middle of state parks). I realize that for a large portion of the Place records, I will have to enter Latitude/Longitude manually.
You can put any information you like in the Place fields and utilize the mapping function.
I suspect what you mean is that to map down to house/street level you must put the full address in the Place fields.
Yes, the Place field should specify the address as recorded at the time of the event.
However, the Standardized field in the Place record can hold the contemporary Google Maps nearest current address and that will be used for automatic mapping. Otherwise, you may have to enter Latitude/Longitude manually.

See FHUG Knowledge Base Working with Places and Addresses, especially under the Places Only section which is the mode you have chosen, and the subsequent two sections.
My question for this group is regarding the number of place elements. For some US events, I have determined I will need 8 comma separated elements, utilizing 4 for the address elements and 4 for the typical place elements.
Is there a limit on the number of comma separated elements in the place field?
See Tools > Work with Data > Places... where you can set Columns... to any number up to 10.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by LornaCraig » 01 May 2022 11:29

Also, I am just beginning to start searching European/Scandinavian records and want to make sure these parameters will fit with typical address/place practices for countries like Scotland, Ireland or Germany for example.
Unfortunately different countries vary widely in the number of parts which would ideally be needed to specify a place and/or address. For example In the USA you have both county and state as intermediate place elements but in the UK we have only county. However not many countries require more than four parts for address and four parts for place so your parameters should be sufficient. Any unused elements can be left blank and in rare cases where more elements are needed these can usually be fitted in by combining two parts into one.
Lorna

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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by cwhermann » 03 May 2022 02:44

Thanks Mike and Lorna
Looks like I should be OK with 8 elements, but most likely will end up with some unused elements in the place field and will have to be careful with counting commas during my data entry. This strategy comes with commitment to make regular use of the Tools > Work with Data > Places window to maintain consistency.
I think of the Place record as and area with many addresses associated with it. I have media and information I would normally attach to the Place record, but I also have media/information specific to an Address (e.g. old family cemeteries) that I would like to attach to an Address record, if one existed. The only way I see to do this and map to a specific "spot" is to enter everything in the place field. I am not sure yet, but thinking I may also end up with Place records which contain only place level elements, (4 blank address elements), - just to have a record to attach place focused material to. I'm also hanging my hat on the Rearrange Address and Place Parts Plugin to be around if a future version of FH provides for entering Long/Lat, notes or media at the address level.
The downside of this approach as I see it is in reports - but at least in reports one can make use of the editing tools to structure how the reports read (which I think one would end up doing anyway even with separate place and address entries.
I may have to change my FHUG profile to read "Source lumper - Place splitter" :lol:
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by jimlad68 » 03 May 2022 10:37

cwhermann wrote:
03 May 2022 02:44
Looks like I should be OK with 8 elements, but most likely will end up with some unused elements in the place field and will have to be careful with counting commas during my data entry. This strategy comes with commitment to make regular use of the Tools > Work with Data > Places window to maintain consistency.
This is my set of queries to check my comma separated positions and what/how goes in them. You would have to change it to meet your "data organisation", for starters my PLACe fields start Country 1st down to street #, then 9 and 10 are Post Code and LatLong. I don't yet use FHs Place records, just stick to GEDCOM PLACe + a SOURce record if I want to make notes on a PLACe of interest.
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by LornaCraig » 03 May 2022 10:48

jimlad68 wrote:
03 May 2022 10:37
I don't yet use FHs Place records
Jim, I'm not sure what you mean by this. Anyone using FH V6 or V7 can't avoid using Place records. A new Place record is created automatically whenever you enter a new place name in a place field. And when you enter a place name which has been used before you automatically create another link to that Place record. Perhaps you just mean you have never done any geocoding or added notes or media directly to a Place record?
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Re: Addresses and commas after house numbers.

Post by jimlad68 » 03 May 2022 11:18

LornaCraig wrote:
03 May 2022 10:48
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Anyone using FH V6 or V7 can't avoid using Place records.
OK, I did use FH Place rather than PLACe, but to be more clear, I don't make use the FH non/extended GEDCOM features as in e.g. _PLAC, 1 STAN, 1 NOTE.
Jim Orrell - researching: see - but probably out of date https://gw.geneanet.org/jimlad68

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