* Inhibiting Geocoding

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AdrianBruce
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Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by AdrianBruce »

Trialling Mike's new Place Exceptions plug-in, I came across a couple of instances where I had Lat / Long values against a place that was, in reality, an unknown place. For instance, someone claims in a census to have been born at "Harbury Hin" and since the person is far off my mainline, I've never tried to resolve what / where it is. But when I was looking through the Place Exceptions plug-in results, I found that "Harbury Hin" had been geocoded.

Can anyone suggest a way of stopping geocoding of such unknown places?

Usually I use the Map Life Facts plug-in to geocode and, if I've done things one at a time or asked for confirmation of every plot, there's usually no issue because I skip unknown places or reject the codings. But somehow "Harbury Hin" got geocoded...

It's also possible, I guess, that I might have used the native FH geocoder - because I don't use it a lot, I am liable to press the wrong button - for instance, I have a tendency to think that Map / Map Location of XXXX means show the map - whereas it actually means geocode XXXX. So I guess any inhibiting process really ought to work on both Map Life Facts and the native Geocoder.

I did wonder about giving such unknown places a standardised value of "XXXX"....

Grateful for any thoughts...
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ColeValleyGirl
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

In the native geocoder, you can block Automatic geocoding for a place (right click on the place in the Map window, select geocoding and then block). I don't know if Mikes plugin honours this but I would hope so.
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by tatewise »

Unfortunately, as soon as you display the Place in the Map Window it gets auto-geocoded.
So you must first right-click and use Geocoding > Remove Geocoding and then right-click again and use Geocoding > Block (no auto-geocoding).
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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AdrianBruce
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by AdrianBruce »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 18 Jun 2021 07:04 In the native geocoder, you can block Automatic geocoding for a place (right click on the place in the Map window, select geocoding and then block). ...
D'oh... That's how you do it. I have to say that CP's Mapping Window etc is not one of their better interfaces. I see the Status of "Tentative" etc, on the Places tab and assume that it can be adjusted there - it can't... Status doesn't even show up in the All Tab.
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 18 Jun 2021 07:04 ... I don't know if Mikes plugin honours this but I would hope so.
Not tried it...
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AdrianBruce
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by AdrianBruce »

Re the status of Block Geocoding (as set by the "Internal" / "Native" FH Geocoding facility) (I hope Mike will correct me if I get this wrong). I just tried this in my cut-down project, which stores the Place Geocoding data in the Place records.

I think that the TLDR is "No, the plug-in doesn't always respect the Blocked Status but that's usually because you've asked it not to do so. Though you may or may not realise it."

Longer:
1) I used the Internal FH Geocoding to set a Place to have Status = Block Geocoding.

2) I then opened the Map Life Facts plug-in - the Blocked place comes under the Statistics heading of "No Plot" - I deduced that from the fact that there was only 1 Blocked place and only one statistic with a count of 1.

3) I then invoked a couple of options in the plug-in, reverting between each run.

3A) Geocode Plot All Locations will Geocode them all, exactly as it says on the tin, including the Blocked place. (Though if you ask to confirm each one, you will get the option to do that).

3B) Geocode Plot Some Locations / Geocode Plot the 1 No Plot Location will geocode that place - but since that's actually what you've asked it to do, that's fine by me.

3C) Geocode Plot Some Locations / Geocode Plot any other choice will avoid the Blocked place.

Conclusions -
In the Internal FH Geoding facility, the Map All Places option will respect the Block Geocoding status set there and not Geocode a Blocked Place.

In the Map Life Facts plug-in, all bar one of the options within Plot Some Locations are not relevant to the Blocked Status Place. The one option that is relevant (Plot the No Plot locations) will ignore the Blocked Status and geocode the place, but that is what you've asked it to do.

In the Map Life Facts plug-in, the Plot All Locations option will ignore the Blocked Status and will geocode the blocked place. Again, I could argue that this is what you've asked it to do and the other options in Plot Some Locations give you the facility to do the other statuses, so you don't need to use this option in the first place.

Caveat 1 - you do need to understand that Blocked equates to No Plot.
Caveat 2 - the last time I tried to get my head round the different types of counts in the Map Life Facts plug-in, I think I came to the conclusion that simply reading across things like Blocked to No Plot wasn't always sensible because the plug-in can work with different input and store the data in different places. So thinking about whether Blocked should be respected isn't always clear.
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tatewise
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by tatewise »

Yes Adrian, that concurs with my recent experiments but I think it can be improved.

One problem that I spotted, that you have not mentioned, is that the 'Blocked (No Auto-Geocode)' status is removed when the Map Life Facts plugin updates the Place records regardless of whether that Place was geocoded or not.
That is unsatisfactory and will be fixed in the next version.

Also, I am tempted to make the Plugin honour that 'Blocked (No Auto-Geocode)' status in most cases.
The only possible exception would be if Geocode Plot This Location was used or the status was otherwise removed.
I am reviewing the options.
On idea is to use the Invalid Statistics item together with 'Blocked (No Auto-Geocode)' in the Latitude & Longitude fields, which must be deleted before geocoding can be invoked.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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AdrianBruce
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by AdrianBruce »

If you can identify when it makes sense to read across the Blocked status, then it would surely make sense to honour it unless the menu option explicitly contradicts it.

At the moment, the FH Place record statuses and the actions within the plug-in don't seem to march in step very well - that "Tentative" status is a pain, for instance. Somehow I had a couple of dozen of them even though I'd mapped them properly in the plug-in - hence I've just wiped all the tentative statuses in the Internal Geocoder. But then again, I tend not to leave tentatively identified places with co-ordinates.
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BillH
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by BillH »

How is this impacted by the setting Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes?

I never block or unblock individual places, but I do check this setting in preferences. I typically have no tentative places unless it was just added and not geocoded yet.

I only use one of these sets of options in the plugin:
  • Geocode Plot Some Locations with either Geocode Plot the x No Plot Locations or Geocode Plot the x No Data Locations
  • Geocode Plot This Location
I don't recall Map Life Facts ever moving one of my locations. Is that because I use Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes or because I use only those options in the plugin?

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tatewise
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by tatewise »

The setting of Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes is recommended by, but ignored by, the Plugin as explained in its Help FAQ https://pluginstore.family-historian.co ... _locations.

I don't understand your statement: "I typically have no tentative places unless it was just added and not geocoded yet."
It is only possible to use the Map Window right-click Geocoding > Mark as Tentative after a Place has been geocoded.
So if a new Place has not yet been geocoded it cannot have Tentative status. In the Plugin, it will have No Data status.

As explained in the Help https://pluginstore.family-historian.co ... -plots-tab, Place records with Tentative status are shown in the Plugin as Plotted and thus candidates for auto-plotting using any of the three Geocode Plot ... Locations buttons.
After geocoding a location in the Plugin, the Tentative status is removed and becomes Defined as described below.
So that is consistent with the FH mapping status.

Geocoded Place records without Tentative status are shown in the Plugin as Defined and have exclusion options for the two Geocode Plot All/Some Locations buttons.
So that is consistent with the FH mapping status if Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes is set.

If you only use the Plugin to geocode No Plot and No Data locations or Geocode Plot This Location then you probably won't have encountered the above scenarios.

On rechecking I find that Place records with Block/No Auto-Geocoding status are shown in the Plugin as No Plot but are not differentiated from locations that the Plugin has tried to geocode but failed.
So it is possible to successfully geocode such a location without realising it has Block/No Auto-Geocoding status in FH.

That is where I could make a change such that Block/No Auto-Geocoding status is clearly displayed, and also using the two Geocode Plot All/Some Locations buttons will never geocode locations with that status.
Then the status must be manually removed or Geocode Plot This Location used to geocode such locations in the Plugin.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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BillH
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by BillH »

tatewise wrote: 21 Jun 2021 10:22 The setting of Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes is recommended by, but ignored by, the Plugin as explained in its Help FAQ https://pluginstore.family-historian.co ... _locations.
I have been using the plugin for a long time and had forgotten this. I haven't read through the help or FAQ in a long time. Guess I'll need to do that again. :D
I don't understand your statement: "I typically have no tentative places unless it was just added and not geocoded yet."
It is only possible to use the Map Window right-click Geocoding > Mark as Tentative after a Place has been geocoded. So if a new Place has not yet been geocoded it cannot have Tentative status. In the Plugin, it will have No Data status.
You are right... I misspoke. What I meant to say is ""I typically have no tentative places unless I have added one and it was auto-geocoded by FH, but I have not yet geocoded it using the plugin". If the location was auto-geocoded by FH it gets set to tentative for me because I have the option set to always mark these as tentative. This reminds me that I need to geocode them using the plugin.

Another off-topic question. As I mentioned earlier, I have never blocked or unblocked a location before. It appears from the FH help, that only locations with no lat/long can be blocked. Am I reading that correctly? How do people use this?

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tatewise
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by tatewise »

Yes, only a Place record with no Lat/long can be Blocked. (Why would you Block one with a Lat/Long value?)

Initially, Adrian asked, "Can anyone suggest a way of stopping geocoding of such unknown places?" and is the Subject of this thread "Inhibiting Geocoding". So it is not an off topic question to asked about blocking geocoding!
Helen replied, "you can block Automatic geocoding for a place" which lead to the Blocked status discussion.
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BillH
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by BillH »

tatewise wrote: 21 Jun 2021 17:03 Yes, only a Place record with no Lat/long can be Blocked. (Why would you Block one with a Lat/Long value?)
I thought maybe so it couldn't be accidently re-geocoded.

My question back to you would be "Why would you Block one without a Lat/Long value?".

Also, why would you keep a place with no Lat/Long value? I always geocode all of my places. Just curious.

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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by tatewise »

If you've set Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes then those with Lat/Long cannot be accidentally re-geocoded.
That is what that global setting is all about, and its Help says (with my underlining):
You can force an automatic refresh of geocoding for any selected places, using the Refresh Geocoding menu command, which is accessible both on the Geocoding submenu of the Map menu, within the Map Window, and by right-click on items in the List pane. Enable this option to prevent a place that already has a latitude and longitude from being refreshed in this way, unless it is marked as tentative.
As discussed by OP, some Place records may be vague, perhaps with no more than the country, or just an unknown place.
So the geocode plot is arbitrarily in the middle of the country or elsewhere and mislead you into thinking it is accurate.
To prevent such Places from being geocoded the Block/No Auto-Geocode status is useful.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by BillH »

I see. I missed that on first read.

Thanks,
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by AdrianBruce »

My blocked places include "Abroad", "an uknown boat", "the canal boat Hannah" and a place called "Harbury Hin" - that last is someone's birthplace according to the census - no county or country - and actually geocoded to somewhere in China :o :o :o

In addition, I may or may not block Parliamentary constituencies (which are places attached to my Voter event) - not decided yet.
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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by BillH »

I put things like "on a boat", "lost at sea", etc. in the address field or in a note. Where the boat was at the time or where the person was lost at sea is what I'd use for the place. If I don't know the place, I leave it blank. I guess everyone does thing a little different. :)

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Re: Inhibiting Geocoding

Post by tatewise »

An updated Map Life Facts plugin attached to Map Life Facts help (19528) honours the Blocked/No Auto-Geocode status.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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