Family Historian User Group

I have created a new Custom Diagram (sort of).

Do I save it as a Custom diagram or Custom Chart?
Help is not very useful in explaning the difference, seeming to say that Chart and Diagram are interchangeable terms.

However, if I open a Diagram via the Custom Diagram option, I get to choose who is the root of the Diagram, whereas when I open it via Saved Charts option, I don't get a choice of Root person.

Am I right is the assumption that a Chart is a fixed snapshot of the Diagram, at the moment it was saved, wherea a Diagram is a Dynamic entity and can change dependant on Root person chosen when opening it?

Lastly, is there an option somewhere to turn on a Grid when creating a Custom Diagram, as I can't find one?

A Custom Diagram Type only saves the Options settings and little else.
They are a variant of a Standard Diagram Type but with a different set of default Options.
BTW: Some Standard Diagram Types are called charts like Pedigree Chart and Fan Chart and the toolbar icon says Charts but only the Saved Charts option at the bottom relates to FH Charts.

A Save FH Chart as you suspected saves all the Diagram characteristics; the Options, the Root person(s), inserted Trees, Pictures, Boxes, Lines, etc, etc...
However, it is NOT a frozen snapshot. If facts are added that affect any of the boxes then they will get added. If people are added who fall within the defined boxes or generations then they will get added.

You can edit a Saved FH Chart in much the same way as a Diagram but all the changes can be saved, whereas when you close a Working Diagram the edits are lost, unless you save it as a Chart.
You can even change a Saved FH Chart from being an Ancestor tree to a Descendant tree if really want to.

They only way to completely freeze a Diagram/Chart is to Diagarm > Save Diagram As and choose an external file format, preferably PDF.

Did you see the FH Help page for Working Diagrams and Charts?
Perhaps with the above explanation you can see why there is so much overlap.

> A Custom Diagram Type only saves the Options settings and little else.
This is not quite true as of V6, it also includes all the boxes and graphics.

What it does not save is the Root person and any "edits" to contents such as hiding individual boxes or using the Format option on a single entry.

This means they are portable between different projects. that is how the Pedigree chart in the Knowledge base works.

Mike & Jane,
Despite your best intentions, your explanations are as clear as mud, and I’m as confused as ever. What we need is an “Idiots Guide” to custom diagrams.

Mike,
By snapshot, I meant the root person is fixed, rather than be available for change, next time you open it. Also, how can it recognise I’ve added someone, and adjust the diagram? That may apply to a standard diagram, where coding may be included to cover such eventualities, but I can’t see how it could work with my simple chart!

Jane,
If the working diagram is not saved, how on earth is one supposed to create a new diagram? In one session I suppose. I do know I altered my chart, to remove colour from all the boxes, and next time I opened it, the colour was back!

Consider a Fan Chart or Pedigree Chart which are made up of boxes just like your hour-glass chart.
They have been saved as a Diagram Type and allow any Diagram Root.
You can design your boxes and lines in a similar way and save it as a Custom Diagram Type.
(I was wrong earlier about them only saving Options and as Jane says they save boxes & lines too.)

Going back to your earlier questions there is no grid and the only way to lock boxes and lines together is to assign them to a group using right-click Grouping. That is how the Fan Chart and Pedigree Chart do it.

The way to accommodate different Diagram Roots relies on the box right-click Format... settings on the Data tab, which typically has Base Person as Diagram Root and Relation Expression defines the box relationship to the root.

With your simple chart, not every ancestor with a box on the chart may exist yet in your Project data.
As soon as they do get added then the Saved Chart will automatically display them in their assigned box.
Some people in the Saved Chart may not have all the facts defined in the Project yet.
But as soon as those facts are added they will appear in the Saved Chart wherever the box Text tab specifies them.
Those Text tabs are equivalent to Diagram Text Schemes that apply to most other Diagram Types.
(You will notice there is no Text tab in the Diagram Options for that reason.)

I suggest you take the Pedigree Chart and save it as a Custom Diagram Type to experiment with.
If you right-click the chart and use Grouping > Ungroup you can see how each box is programmed on its Data and Text tab.

You create new types of Diagram by using either Save Diagram As > Custom Diagram Type or Family Historian Chart but as you say that latter locks the Diagram root.

Simon Orde himself posted quite a detailed description on the beta test site in response to the same question. From memory, the essence of it was yes they are basically the same thing, and no, FH is not always consistent in what it calls a diagram and what it calls a chart. I tend to think of diagrams as dynamic objects and charts as fixed ones, but even that simple generalisation falls over in places.

is there an option somewhere to turn on a Grid when creating a Custom Diagram, as I can't find one?

Do you want the grid purely as an aid to arranging the boxes in neat vertical and horizontal rows? If so, you could display the page boundaries and then make the pages very small (relative to the diagram). You can do this either using Diagram Options> General tab, scaling (try 400% for a start) or by right clicking the mouse on one of the intersections and dragging towards the top left of the screen. (Remember to re-set the scaling afterwards if you want to print the diagram!)

Lorna,
I could try that, but what I settled on was adding vertical and horizontal lines to guide me, then delete them when design complete.

There are some serious shortfalls in the facilities provided to aid Diagram design.
1. No grid
2. No way to align text boxes
3. No way to dimension the size of the boxes, so that are all the same size. (The only way to do it, is to create the first box, and then copy it for the other boxes).
4. No facility to use smart ‘Connectors’ to join the boxes, that follow the boxes as they’re moved. This is particularly frustrating, as they do exist in CP’s own diagrams.

Perhaps I ought to start a new wish list

It seems I am not the only one confused between charts and diagrams.
At Miketate's suggestion, I started reading the knowledge base on Charts and Diagrams and whilst respecting the amount of effort involved in producing it, the author seems as confused as me.
They imply that a Diagram automatically becomes a Chart when you save it, this is wrong!

A Diagram is saved via the Diagram/Save Diagram As menu. This gives you many options, the first being to save it as Family Historian Chart , but you can also save it as a Custom Diagram Type.

Note to Jane, So you can save Diagrams!

Unfortunately, when you chose to save as a Custom Diagram Type , you are given no clue to what Custom Diagrams already exist, so one could inadvertantly choose the same name as an existing Custom Diagram, and what is worse, you get no warning that you are about to overwrite the existing Custom Diagram!

It seems to me that the main difference between a Chart and a Diagram occurs when you open one.
If you open a Diagram, you are asked to name the Root Person of the diagram, because it isn't defined in the Diagram
However, if you open a Chart, there is no need to ask for the Root person, as it was already defined in the Diagram used to create the Chart
The only other differences are their file extension and where they are saved
Diagrams, with a .fhdx extension, are stored in ProgramData/calico Pie/family Historian/Diagrams folders (making them available to all projects), whereas charts, with a .fhx extension, are stored in the project's home directory in the Charts sub-directory, making them project specific.

Comment I wonder if the .fhdx extension means these files can be read by a CAD program, which use DX files? I'll investigate.

My learning continues...

At Miketate's suggestion, I started reading the knowledge base on Charts and Diagrams and whilst respecting the amount of effort involved in producing it, the author seems as confused as me.

Page link please?

[ Mike Tate Edit: I actually referred to the FH Help page, not the KB. ]

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

15 Dec 2020 09:57

At Miketate's suggestion, I started reading the knowledge base on Charts and Diagrams and whilst respecting the amount of effort involved in producing it, the author seems as confused as me.

Page link please?

https://www.family-historian.co.uk/help ... indow.html

[ Mike Tate Edit: Actually this one https://www.family-historian.co.uk/help ... harts.html ]

So, not the Knowledge Base but the FH6 Help file.

I didn't think Mike's content on Diagrams (which is what we migrated) could have been your problem.

Did you make it this far? https://www.family-historian.co.uk/help ... harts.html (this is in the FH7 Help File

I wasn't aware of I was on an FH6 page, I just followed the links from the new knowledge base, and that is where I landed! (Perhaps links need checking?)

The link you provided took me to a similarly worded page, but for FH7, and It still says Diagrams are Saved as Charts, which is wrong!

Also, there is no Save Diagram option in FH7, it is now Save Diagram As, which leads you to a choice of how you want to save the Diagram. They are not saved automatically as a chart, one has a choice!

NB I investigated the .fhdx format, and it is not suitable for a CAD program! Their DX files are text based, and fhDX files are not!

Gowermick wrote: ↑

15 Dec 2020 10:38

(Perhaps links need checking?)

The Diagram and Charts section of the KB hasn't been updated for FH7 yet. That's why it doesn't include FH7 in a line like this "FH versions: V4, V5, and V6". Eventually we will include a link to the FH7 help file as well as the FH6 one.

If you have issues with the content of the FH7 Help file, you might want to report them to Calico Pie?

ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑

15 Dec 2020 10:44

If you have issues with the content of the FH7 Help file, you might want to report them to Calico Pie?

Helen,
The change from knowledge base to FH7 help file was so seemless, I didn't realise I was no longer in the Knowledgebase but in the actual Calico pie FH7 help file.

I have raised it with them. - Ticket 559578

Thanks