* Orienting certificate images

[E Wilcock]

I have jpeg images of some certificates which I want to show landscape in the source image pane.
One reason for moving to fh was to show source images.
I link the image leaving the original in my own file structure.
I canot get the certificate to display landscape in fh even though it is landscape in the picture folder.

I have been driven out of my mind over the last week trying to use fh.

[ColeValleyGirl]

It's a common probem. Look at how_to:v4:adding_multimedia#photo_orientation|> Photo Orientation to see if it helps.

[tatewise]

See how_to:v4:adding_multimedia#photo_orientation|> Photo Orientation.

In Windows use Windows Photo Viewer or Windows Live Photo Gallery and with the image open use right-click Rotate left/right, or in File Explorer right-click the file and choose Rotate counter/clockwise.

[Gowermick]

Miketate has it right, but there is a kickback to consider.
If you look at any image in Photo Viewer and rotate it, when you close the viewer, it will save the image in this new orientation, whether you want it changed or not! If the orientation is important, copy the file first before viewing, and view the copy.

[E Wilcock]

See how_to:v4:adding_multimedia#photo_orientation|> Photo Orientation.

In Windows use Windows Photo Viewer or Windows Live Photo Gallery and with the image open use right-click Rotate left/right, or in File Explorer right-click the file and choose Rotate counter/clockwise.

Windows 10 on a new computer. that is not an upgrade to W7, does not have either of these programmes.

To the other kinds people, I already read the previous posts and the knowledge base but dont understand.
I already have 3 copies of this wretched certificate which was perfectly fine when shown in TMG.

Windows 10 has a something called a Photos app. I also have Photoshop Elements (upgrade bought with the new computer) and my old favourite Picasa.

I have this particular certificate with which I am struggling saved in both orientations. The whole point of fh is that it can handle images so what is hapening?

[tatewise]

You may have those programs without realising.
Right-click on any JPG image on the Windows 10 machine and select Open With > Choose another app.
If Windows Photo Viewer or Windows Live Photo Gallery are not listed then select More apps.
Scroll down to see if either program is listed and select it to open the image.

You can also use Picasa to edit the JPG which has a rotate image option at the bottom.
I imagine Photoshop Elements will have a rotate option too.

Alternatively, you can use the age-old Paint that is still on Windows 10. That has Rotate options near top left.

The KB article explains why it is happening, and is due to EXIF data within JPG files that some programs use to orient the picture and others do not. FH is one that does not.

[E Wilcock]

Mike, the image is already rotated when viewed in the folder in windows explorer I have it copies as both portrait and landscape. The image was scanned with a rather old canon scanner that still works well.
I will do as you say. Make a new copy and rotate that new copy.
If I open it in Picasa the properties tells me it has been rotated.

But if this is a known problem with fh, I feel it should be for Calico Pie to sort it out?

I think one problem is that Covid is wearing me down and I have just spent two hours tryng to rotate a certificate. This is not a good use either of your time or mine.

[tatewise]

Remember that it is the copy within the FH Media folder that you need to rotate appropriately.
You don't need to take any copies because it sounds like you have plenty of copies outside FH.
If some copies of the same image are landscape and some portrait then some rotating has already been applied after scanning and may be part of the problem.

When opened in Picasa which version says it has been rotated ~ the landscape or portrait version? Can't be both!

As mentioned in the KB article, Wish List item Ref 536 Use Orientation meta-data in Media images has been created and you can Vote for it, but it does not have many Votes. So CP should be aware, but FH has not been updated for years.

It has only become a significant problem since the widespread use of digital camera images in genealogy where the camera adds the EXIF orientation data and can be confused if pointing down photographing a document flat on a table.

[E Wilcock]

There is a problem. Any scan of a UK paper certificate from my scanner comes out Portrait and then has to be rotated.
So every single certificate image is rotated.
German certificates are portrait in the original so it may be only UK ones which are a problem.
I dont keep the image inside the fh folder. I link to files in my Windows file structure. Pictures/Family History/ Surname (Project name) / Certificates.

[Gowermick]

The UK certicates are printed in landscape, but if you are scanning them, you are most probably placing them on the bed as you would a normal A4 piece of paper, which means you have rotated them to get them to fit the scanner bed. The scanner software doesn’t know the original orientation so is producing the image as is. You will need to rotate each document immediately after scanning.
Check your scanner software to see if it has the option to rotate the image before saving.

[tatewise]

It might help to know what you used to rotate the UK Certificates from portrait to landscape.

I used each of Windows Photo Viewer and Windows Live Photo Gallery and Paint to rotate an image.
It seems that those three like FH do not use the EXIF data so show the image as it will appear in FH.
They all worked fine as far as the image shown in the Media tab & window, but FH had to be closed and opened to get the smaller thumbnail image to also rotate.
As Mick says, the scanner may have an image rotate option, but that means scanning all the Certificates again!

Picasa Photo Viewer & Editor was confusingly unuccessful and File Explorer right-click Rotate left/right did not work either.
I suspect Picasa is altering the EXIF data rather tha actually rotating image.

[PeterR]

I find I can solve all such problems by using the free IrfanView; it can rotate images, either singly or as a batch, and can optionally correct the EXIF data.

[GeneSniper]

I had this problem and solved it by just opening the image rotate it and rotate it back then click save. This cured the problem for me.

[E Wilcock]

PeterR I have downloaded InfranView64. I used it to rotate the image but it doesnt seem to be saving it.
And I do not understand how to strip out the exe data.

I guess the original rotation would have been via the scanner. Cannoscan 8800F. It is an old scanner but excellent and Cannon still provide drivers.

Moreover this problem affect every single certificate image currently on my computer.

And only if I try to link to fh.

Solving this problem is pretty impossible since when viewed on my computer all the images are correctly oriented as landscape. It is only when I Iink the external file to my source record that the orientation fails.
So even if I were to open the image in a Windows viewer which I am anyway, the position would not be changed.

I orient all my scanned documents before saving them to my hard drive. I do it so as to examine the image and make sure it is OK. Otherwise, if a bit is missing for instance or writing unclear I need to scan it again.

The certificate images attach correctly to the source media in Rootsmagic7.

[Valkrider]

It is EXIF data not exe. There are tools available that can remove it however that is not necessary as FH ignores the EXIF data as per Mikes earlier reply. It seems from your comment that Rootsmagic does use the EXIF data.

I also use a Canon scanner and just rotate the image after the scanner has saved it and then load that new image into FH without issue.

Perhaps if the file is a suitable size attach one of the problem ones here (the one from your media library) and one of us can check it out for you.

[tatewise]

It would help us a lot if you could be more specific about what you do.
i.e. What programs do you use and what commands do you use.

Exactly how do you rotate them in the first place?
e.g. Did you use the Cannonscan software or Picasa?

Exactly how do you view them now?
e.g. Do you use Picasa, or Paint, or RootsMagic?

As I said before, some image viewers in Windows, just like FH, ignore the EXIF data.
So the solution is to rotate the image using those image viewers and eliminate the EXIF data.
Then everything will display the images as you desire.

If you have a great many to do then IrfanView offers the bulk solution but the commands need spelling out.

[E Wilcock]

I had this problem and solved it by just opening the image rotate it and rotate it back then click save. This cured the problem for me.

I did the same using Irfanview64.

I asked support at Calico Pie and that is what they told me to do.

I apologise that my aging brain and covid quarantine prevented me understanding the complexities of this marker problem which apparently creates the issue but the support letter from Calico Pie told me that this would be noted so it could be avoided in version 7.

[BobWard]

I have always used Photoshop Elements to rotate any images that need rotating for proper display in FH. I have about 3,600 images in my FH project media folder, most of which have been run through Photoshop Elements for one reason or another, including rotating. These images come from digital cameras, my Epson scanner, and Internet downloads.

In Photoshop Elements Editor, select Image>Rotate>Select rotation angle (e.g., 90 left, 90 right etc.). Save the image and you are done. Never had a problem doing it this way, the image always appears correctly when viewed in FH reports.

[E Wilcock]

Thanks Bob. I own and use Photoshop elements.
The problem here was different. That on the computer screen (and Photoshop elements and other viewing software) the image was already correctly orientated. It was retaining the marker that was the problem.