Family Historian User Group

tatewise wrote: ↑

11 May 2020 16:42

I wonder if you can inspect the service-card-Paul-Edward-Turnell.jpg image file to investigate its meta-data.
(Perhaps inspect the original download rather than the FH Media copy that Validate may have modified.)

Use an image editor such as IrfanView and use Image > Information > EXIF Info
Or use File Explorer to right-click the Properties > Details

Does that reveal the text draft-card-wwI-Paul-E-Turnell ?

Mike, That's the text in the image note field for the image properties. It's just showing the image description in parentheses. I usually add a description there, but in this case, just pasted the filename. Ancestral Records also copies this into the image note field when it saves to FH. As I noted, I don't use the EXIF metadata option you mentioned, specifically to avoid having any image IPTC/EXIF data imported.

Sorry Joel, I don't understand your description.

Are you saying you have found the text draft-card-wwI-Paul-E-Turnell in the JPG image note field of its Properties?

But then you call it the image description?

Then you say you just pasted the filename which is service-card-Paul-Edward-Turnell and not the same text.

Then you involve Ancestral Records (Sources?) which copies something to the image note field.

I'm not sure when you are talking about the Media image FILE and when you are talking about the FH Media RECORD.
Certainly, draft-card-wwI-Paul-E-Turnell does NOT appear anywhere in the Media RECORD screenshot you posted along with the Validation error message.

If draft-card-wwI-Paul-E-Turnell does exist in the image FILE and NOT in the Media RECORD then for some reason it is upsetting the Validate process.

tatewise wrote: ↑

11 May 2020 22:20

Sorry Joel, I don't understand your description.

Are you saying you have found the text draft-card-wwI-Paul-E-Turnell in the JPG image note field of its Properties?
But then you call it the image description?
Then you say you just pasted the filename which is service-card-Paul-Edward-Turnell and not the same text.
Then you involve Ancestral Records (Sources?) which copies something to the image note field.
I'm not sure when you are talking about the Media image FILE and when you are talking about the FH Media RECORD.
Certainly, draft-card-wwI-Paul-E-Turnell does NOT appear anywhere in the Media RECORD screenshot you posted along with the Validation error message.
If draft-card-wwI-Paul-E-Turnell does exist in the image FILE and NOT in the Media RECORD then for some reason it is upsetting the Validate process.

Mike, relax, dude. You're confusing two different media images, but that IS my fault; I confused you when I posted the screencap of one media along with the earlier error message from another. (You can see that one is record ID 3540 and the other is ID 3541). I also confused you with the wrong names for the field. Forgive me for not having memorized every detail of every field and dialogue in FH. I've only been using it a few months, but I promise I'll work harder .

In the media properties window, this text is called media "Title". I had that confused with Picture Note (which is the field just below it, so Hey, I was close!). Either of these fields can be whatever you like as they are just text. When using Ancestral Sources for census and adding a media image, AS offers you the option to automagically add a Title to the image record using the filename (sans the extension, of course). I usually do. When adding a new image, I also usually simply paste the filename (sans the extension) in the media "Title" field because it's easier to remember and I already have the filename in my clipboard, so it's fast. I've done this forever, so it's not causing this recent problem. I've also had the same errors with new images that had NO text in the media "Title" field. This problem is not related to that text nor is my problem related to the metadata option since I've had that option disabled from day one.

tatewise wrote: ↑

11 May 2020 21:25

@David ~ Can you go into a bit more detail. You are talking about the File > Validate error mesage?
JP Ford says the Validate command automatically 'fixes' the problem, but just viewing the Media Record does not.
Exactly what do you do to resolve the problem?

I'll endeavour to recreate the problem and my solution logging the steps. ( It never happens using when AS.) Will post them ASAP.

tatewise wrote: ↑

11 May 2020 21:25

@David ~ Can you go into a bit more detail. You are talking about the File > Validate error mesage?
JP Ford says the Validate command automatically 'fixes' the problem, but just viewing the Media Record does not.
Exactly what do you do to resolve the problem?

I start with a refreshed Sample Project.
Add Citation for a Birth Record - select existing Source GRO Birth Index add details, click show media,
Add media for Citation. Insert from file (file exists in media folder).
The Birth citation now exists. File-> Validate = No errors.
Now Copy Citation and Paste to another individual.
The Birth citation now exists. File-> Validate = Error
Go the Media Record and click on each of the two links.
File-> Validate = No errors.

Hopefuly the attached screenshots elaborate.

David2416 wrote: ↑

12 May 2020 08:06

Hopefuly the attached screenshots elaborate.

OK, thank you David, I can explain your File > Validation errors, but not sure it explains Joel's.

To understand the problem you must understand how Media records are associated with their host link.
The following explanation focusses of the Media tab of an Individual Property Box, but applies everywhere Media can be linked such as in Citations, on Facts, etc.

Consider the Media tab Edit Media dialogue options to Link to Face, Exclude from Diagrams, Exclude from Reports, Use Note as Caption, and the adjacent note text.
Those details are NOT saved in the Individual record, where it holds the link to the Media record.
They are saved in the Media record itself and shown on the Links tab of its Property Box in Note & Flags, etc.


So how does the Media record know which of those settings apply to which host Individual link?
GEDCOM does not allow a reverse link from Media record to host record, so FH invented one called _ASID.
The Media record and the host Individual link have the same _ASID number to associate the settings.
If you inspect the GEDCOM file you will find them very easily, but FH hides them even on the All tab. When David copies & pastes the Citation with linked Media, any _ASID numbers go with the copy.
So now two host record links have the same _ASID number and the Media record does not know which link to apply those settings to, and that is why File > Validate reports an error.
To fix the error, the _ASID number is arbitrarily removed from one of the host links, which may be the wrong one.
( Note that no _ASID entry against a host link is perfectly OK when only the default settings apply. )
Thus the associated settings may migrate from one host link to the other, which is not a perfect fix.
However, you won't notice there is a problem if only the default settings apply.

What I cannot explain is why the _ASID numbers are getting upset in Joel's case, unless he is copy & pasting Citations but omitted to mention that.

tatewise wrote: ↑

12 May 2020 10:43

What I cannot explain is why the _ASID numbers are getting upset in Joel's case, unless he is copy & pasting Citations but omitted to mention that.

It's possible that's the case, but I don't recall. It would not be unusual for me to do so. That would explain the inconsistent nature of my experience with the error.

I have to say, however, that sounds a bit like a bug. Copying an existing citation from one individual/event to another seems like it would be common and it's a feature the program supports. Seems like that error could be anticipated and dealt with behind the scenes, rather than providing obscure and uninformative errors and fixes that only occur when you manually run the Validation routine.

I'd also be curious to know why Ancestral Sources does not generate this error when it creates multiple individual events for a Census; Is it creating separate citations for each event and linking to the single media file?

Ancestral Sources does not produce the error because it creates each Citation independently, not by copying.
Remember it is not the linking to one Media but the copy & paste that invokes the error.
If you were to add each one by repeating the whole process then there is no error produced.

Yes, it is most definitely a bug, and I will be reporting it to Calico Pie as soon as possible.

It may add weight to the problem if you and David reported it as well using how_to:about#problem_reporting|> Problem Reporting.

It is an oversight that is exacerbated by the relatively recent addition of the Show Media buttons and their ability to add Media to Facts and Citations very easily. Prior to that, Media could only be added to those items via the All tab, so rarely happened. Thus the Fact and Citation Copy & Paste rarely involved Media. Also, users rarely use File > Validate anyway.

Can and will followup with a report, Mike. Thanks for staying with it until a solution, or at least an explanation was found

So, the workaround for me will be to try to remember to run the Validate function before I exit after adding these kinds of citations. I do run Validate as a routine every time I open FH and that may be sufficient. Leaving the error until the next session doesn't seem to cause further problems, so I suppose either way will be okay.

Support ticked request Created.

"David Cooper,
Thank you for contacting us.

This email confirms that your inquiry (#335279) is in our customer support queue. A real person will be in touch as soon as possible. We reply to all inquiries in the order in which they are received. You can review the status of your request and add additional comments by visiting our support centre

Support Team"

I know it is up to Calico Pie to decide how to "solve" acknowledged issues, but ...

Isn't this problem in how _ASID numbers are assigned (sequential by @Oxx@ tree?)?

If the _ASID number included the relevant @Ix@ @Fy@ etc reference couldn't this problem be avoided? (e.g. _ASID 11 @F10@)
Within the @!x@ @Fy@ etc. record the corresponding @Ox@ number would not be required because the _ASID number is a branch of the @Ox@ branch of the "owning tree":
Examples from the FH Sample Project

@David, yes, something like that might help with resolving errors but on its own is not a solution.
BYW: _ASID numbers are allocated chronologically per Media record as each link is added.
There would be a lot of 'legacy' compatibility problems. What if someone sent such a new GEDCOM to someone who had only installed an earlier FH version?

One difficulty to overcome is that the same Media record may be linked to many places in one host record.
In an Individual record, it could be on the Media tab and on any number of Facts and Citations.
So even though the _ASID number should be different, the @I99@ suffix will all be the same.

However, what should happen when such Media links are copied as with Copy Citation and Paste Citation?
As well as copying the Media link and _ASID, the Media record itself will need the associated _ASID settings to be copied but with the new @I99@ suffix.
Even that may not be what the user expects, because those settings may not be relevant in the context of the pasted copy.

I have checked the related Copy Fact and Paste Fact operations which do NOT produce File > Validate errors.
That is because they simply remove any _ASID number tags in the pasted copies, which is perfectly valid where the default Media settings apply. i.e. the copied Media drop any settings that may have been applied to the original.
Those operations even correctly copy Media linked to Citations attached to the copied Fact.
If that strategy were applied to Paste Citation then the problem would be consistently resolved.

David2416 wrote: ↑

12 May 2020 15:29

Support ticked request Created.

"David Cooper,
Thank you for contacting us.

This email confirms that your inquiry (#335279) is in our customer support queue. A real person will be in touch as soon as possible. We reply to all inquiries in the order in which they are received. You can review the status of your request and add additional comments by visiting our support centre

Support Team"

Reply I received this morning:

To: David Cooper

Thank you very much for that detailed and helpful bug report. We have confirmed that we can reproduce the bug following your instructions. It will be fixed in the next release.

Martin

Family Historian Support
Calico Pie

Yes, I have had a similar response, so hopefully, it will be fixed in FH V7.