Family Historian User Group

Hi Forum

I have a need to record Individual TMG Record ID's that relate to my legacy TMG database within FH. I also need to keep another number identifier to record the physical document file such as BMD certificates are filed under.
I have been using the Custom ID field for the TMG part. But now I have added quite a few new Individual records into FH this is becoming messy and conflicting between the two needs.

I have thought about a structure such as 'TMG #/File #' and storing the combined number within the same Custom ID field. But this may cause issues in other programs such as FS and Ancestry. So would prefer a cleaner/simpler approach if there is one.

I don't necessarily need to see these values as you would with the FH Individuals ID or Custom ID, I just need to look them up when I need to. I could create an Individual Note and store the info there. But was wondering what other possibilities might exist?

Thanks in advance

You could add a Custom ID to a source for the Physical document identifier? This is a separate set of IDS to the Custom ID for individuals.

Yes, assuming your BMD certificates, etc, are recorded in Source Records then use the Source record Custom Id field that is completely distinct from the Individual record Custom Id field.

Also, considering Census documents, or other Source records, that are cited by many Individual records, it avoids the problem of how to handle multiple Source documents all linked to one Individual but filed under different identities.

Thank you both...

I can see how that helps with the Filing issue, and just to be sure I have this right...so if I had 3 x Sources, EG, Birth, Marriage and Death I can assign the same 'File #' to all three source Custom ID's if they are placed in the same file, or they can have unique File # if required - correct?

Having solved the Filing dilemma, what options do I have for the TMG ID also residing in the Custom ID field. I can leave it there, but as the database gets more and more new (non TMG migrated Individuals) this field will only be relevant for those that came from TMG. So is a waste of the fields intended use in a way. Would a Individual Note then make sense to store the TMG value?

Many thanks.

We need a clearer explanation of where those ID apply.

Custom Id fields are free format, so they can hold any textual value, either all different, or all the same, or any mixture.

I got the impression that the TMG ID only applies to Individual records, and the Filing ID only applies to Source records, so they never occur in the same record together, but maybe I'm wrong. Can you please give more precise details.

For Individual records only, there is also the Permanent Record Number that despite its name can take any textual value.

You're right -- custom IDs do not need to be unique so you can have the same custom ID for multiple source fields.

If you think you might want to use the Custom ID for individuals for a different purpose, and simply preserve the TMG ID for 'historial' purposes for some not all individuals, you could use:

• A Note -- but it might be difficult to exclude this from reports (of course you might not want to).

• The Permanent Record Number, as Mike has suggested.

• The Automated Record Id

I suspect (although plugins aren't my skill) a plugin to do a one off transfer from Custom ID to PRN or ARI would be relatively straightforward.

Ditto, but to exclude any Note text from Reports, etc, enclose it in [[privacy double square brackets]].
The Automated Record Id value cannot be edited via FH dialogues (but may be via a Plugin - can't remember off hand).
I could quickly write a Plugin to transfer Custom Id to Permanent Record Number.

BUT we need a clearer appreciation of your requirements.

ARI and PRN are both input as standard on the All tab of the Individual Property Box, or another tab can be created or customised to show them.

FH provides as standard facilities to copy all record IDs into either the Custom ID or ARI.

There used to be a plugin (referenced at how_to:handling_renumbered_record_id|> Handling Renumbered Record Id) to manipulate ARIs but I suspect it was superseded by FH's support for doing the same thing; if you still have access to the code, Mike, it might form the basis for a new plugin.

Helen, although you can add Automated Record Id via the All tab you CANNOT alter its value in any way, except via Tools > Record Identifiers, but that does not help with Custom Id.

The reference in how_to:handling_renumbered_record_id|> Handling Renumbered Record Id is just a suggestion that a Plugin could be used. However, the link to the Forums Topic migrate from Legacy - keep ids (10776) does provide a Plugin but that operates directly on the GEDCOM file to migrate Legacy Record Id to ARI prior to import.

Experimentally, I have written a very simple Plugin to copy Custom Id to Automated Record Id, but as I said, it is a bit pointless because the user can NEVER alter Automated Record Id.

Mike,

David will confirm or otherwise, but I was interpreting his requirement as a one-time need to record the TMG record ID in such a way that he can refer to it if necessary; I did not think there was a need to alter it once it was recorded. If so, the Automated Record ID seems perfect.

Helen

Maybe ~ that is why we need a better understanding of the requirement ~ but David is remaining silent.

I have reviewed the Custom Id features and discovered another option.

Firstly, any number of instances of Custom Id are allowed in any type of record that allows them.
That includes Individual and Source and Media records (but not Place records).

Secondly, each Custom Id can be categorised by a subsidiary Type field.
So you could identify whether the Type of Custom Id is TMG or File.

The Gedcom data references for Individual records are:
%INDI.REFN[1]% 1st Custom Id
%INDI.REFN[1].TYPE% type of 1st Custom Id e.g. File
%INDI.REFN[2]% 2nd Custom Id
%INDI.REFN[2].TYPE% type of 2nd Custom Id e.g. TMG
and similarly for Source records:
%SOUR.REFN[1]% 1st Custom Id
%SOUR.REFN[1].TYPE% type of 1st Custom Id e.g. File

It would be perfectly feasible to customise the Property Box to incorporate all those fields and edit them there.

In Reports and Diagrams would be feasible to conditionally display either, both, or neither Type of Custom Id.

I have updated glossary:custom_id|> Custom Id's to describe these features.

Hi All

I do apologise - I have been travelling last few days. Will catch up with the threads today and come back with a response. Thank you all for your contributions.

Hi Mike/Helen

I think I have caught up now and understand what input is needed from me.

Just to back track a little, I have been using the FH Individual Custom ID field to handle firstly and most importantly keeping my TMG reference ID so that I can refer back to that database archive if I need to - TMG is now redundant but still a useful archive; especially when I find new information that disagrees with what I have in TMG. This accounted for 978 people during the migration from TMG to FH.

Since that one off migration, my FH database has grown and I now have 1253 Individuals inclusive of the original 978 that came from TMG. So I started to add FH Custom Id's for these new Individuals starting from 5000. So both the TMG ID and the newer ID (starting from 5000) were placed in the FH Individual Custom ID field to serve two purposes, firstly to allow me to reference back to TMG if needed for the 978 Individuals and secondly to reference back to my physical storage system where I file my BMD certificates and other Source related data. So this physical storage system when using ID numbers to link back to Individuals can apply to both TMG ID's and New Custom ID's. Hope that makes sense. I have prepared a diagram attached to explain this.

Now I have a proposed solution from you for the physical filing system - to use the FH Source Custom ID to link scanned documents such as BMD certs which are attached to the FH Source back to an Individual. Although I still need to think this through how to set that up and make that change which is quite a lot of manual data entry.

What I need now is to 'move' the use of the Individual Custom ID values that support my TMG cross referencing (values 1 to 978) into a permanent field elsewhere in the FH database and ideally away from the Individual Custom ID field. And the use of the ARI or PRI seems to fit the bill for that. And avoids the need to create 978 Notes.

An automated method to achieve this would be fantastic if possible. The Icing on the cake would be if it only moved the Custom ID (TMG ID values 1 - 978) or if easier any values less than 1000. And if it could be possible to have which ever is best suited ARI or PRI visible on the Individual Record view see - screen shot.

This would given me a clean start and a sustainable indexing solution going forward.

Thanks again for you continued support.

Personally I now file physical documents by the Source ID and not by person. I can easily find all the source documents for a person using FH and as they are all scanned, I don't often need to "gather" the originals. It has the advantage that I don't have to decide where a marriage certificate goes.

Hi Jane

I can see how this would work also. It was the issue that I was mixing up the purpose of the value in Individual - Custom ID. That's caused this.

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into this further.

David

Hi Jane

So thinking you must use the Source ID itself and not the Source Custom ID to link to any physical 'filed' documents - correct?

David

I scan all source documents and link the electronic copies to the corresponding FH source record. Then, if I need to refer to the image, I can easily find it from within FH. (I suspect this is very similar to how Jane works). I then use the Source ID automatically generated by FH to label any physical file, completing the linkages.

Helen

Hi David, I suspect Jane means the Source Custom Id that you can govern, rather than Source Record Id that you cannot so easily.

As Helen and I explained earlier, it makes it much clearer, because we cannot see how an Individual Custom Id can apply to all that person's cited Source documents, when for example one Census record is cited by everyone in the household, and even BMD records will be cited by several relatives named on the document.
e.g.
If one person says all their cited Source documents are Filed under Custom Id = 5432, and another person says all their cited Source documents are Filed under Custom Id = 6789, where do you File a Source document that is cited by them both?
Whereas, if that Source document Custom Id = 7890 then that is where it is Filed for both persons.

With that strategy, you can keep your TMG # in the Individual Custom Id.

Hi All

Yes of course the One (Source) to Many (Individuals) syndrome as in Census and BMD for parents, witnesses. I understand now. So I might as well use just the Source ID to label my 'physical' documents and then use the 'Where Used Record Links' Plug-In to find those Individuals related in some way to that Source. And similarly from the Individual point of view use the Standard Query 'Sources for a given Record > Individual to find the Sources linked to an Individual. Would that be the better approach? This then avoids using Source - Custom ID altogether I think?

I would still like to get the TMG values into either ARI or PRI. Can you please help with this.

Many thanks...

I'm not sure that using the Source Record Id is such a good idea, because that is effectively a random number.
It is just a sequentially allocated number as new Source records are added.
If you want to organise your filing system in some logical way, then you need to use the Source record Custom Id field, so you can assign whatever filing system identifiers you require, which need not be purely numerical.

Otherwise, your methods of finding Source record links are essentially correct, plus you can use the Sources For yellow pane.

The attached Move Individual Custom Id To Permanent Record Number Plugin will move your TMG Custom Id <= 978 to the Permanent Record Number field.

Mike,

I'd argue that it doesn't matter if Source ID is a random number as long as you can (1) see it in FH (preferably without customisation) and (2) write it on your physical file (which you then store in number order) -- much less work than recording a custom source ID. The logical organising of sources can then all be done in FH. It even works if David doesn't intend to scan all his documents.

Of course, if David has a large backlog of sourcerecord <-> file linkages to make, it's pretty well the same amount of work whether he enters existing physical file references into the Custom ID in a source, or labels existing physical files with the FH Source ID. But after that, I'd say it was simpler to use the FH Source ID (no extra data entry in FH), unless David has a need to access his physical filing independently of FH so needs something more meaningful to label/organise the physical files.

There's a good relevant discussion at https://genealogy.stackexchange.com/que ... -documents

Hi Both

Thank you for the Plug-In Mike, I will play around with this tonight. And thank you both for your very helpful comments. I agree with Helen that once I have got over the backlog of re-labelling my documents then going forward there is very little admin overhead and I don't have to be concerned about the Custom ID field anywhere.

Having digested everything you have kindly passed on I can see my current system is already flawed as I file the census image with the head of the household only from an Individual linked reference number. This new approach is far simpler, allows a broader relationship at the Individual 'association' level and is much more flexible.

Thank you all so much...

Hi All

Okay - successfully moved the TMG Custom ID's to the Permanent Record ID - using the Plug-In, thanks Mike.

How do I now mass remove the remaining unwanted Individual Custom ID's?

Many thanks in advance...

Mike or Jane will confirm, but I believe that if you write an Individual query that displays the Custom ID (filtered by Custom ID is not null) then select the custom ID column and press delete... they will vanish.

Do NOT delete the whole Individual rescords, and probably safer to take a backup first!