* Organization of Generations

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gwilym'smum
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Organization of Generations

Post by gwilym'smum » 07 Jan 2017 07:53

I run FH in conjunction with Custodian 4. Custodian requires the creation of family id, personal id and household id. I have been putting the personal id created, as a custom id in FH. The only Custodian id with reference to generation is the household id but this id changes as to where the person is living, so is not constant. To further my organization in FH I wish to define which generation people belong to. In my paper files I have a different colour for each generation. I wondered if, and/or how others mark the generations in FH.
I also tried downloading the generation icons, it went into my file but when I tried to open didn't get the generation icons only the default. Still that is only for diagrams, what I require is some way to mark people when I call up a person. (I tried allocating generation colours in a diagram and followed the help steps meticulously but did not succeed, but that is another question!)
Ideally each person would be in their generation's colour but I know that isn't possible.
I suppose I could set a flag or make a named list with a column on the records window but I already have quite a few columns!
Any thoughts on what others do would be appreciated.
Ann :?
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tatewise
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by tatewise » 07 Jan 2017 14:03

Ann, can you be more specific about what you mean by generation?
Generation relative to who? The File Root perhaps?
Are you only interested in direct ancestors or what?
e.g.
The function =RelationCode(%INDI%,FileRoot(),GENERATION,1) returns the following generation numbers relative to File Root & their Spouse:
0 for siblings & cousins & their spouses
1 for parents & uncles & aunts & their spouses
2 for grandparents, grand uncles/aunts & their spouses
and so on...
Those numbers could appear in a Records Window column, in Property Box caption, and Box Conditions to set Box features.

In Diagrams on the Options > Boxes tab use <<Add Condition > Generations and you can choose whatever box features you like for up to 10 generations (and then they repeat) ~ see Help for details. The generations are determined relative to the Diagram Root rather than the File Root.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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gwilym'smum
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by gwilym'smum » 07 Jan 2017 16:49

Hi, My main work is from our son, Gwilym, who I always set at 0 generations. This means that we (my husband and I) are 1, our parents 2 and so on. Which is what I think you were referring to with the expression.
When I set a query for Gwil for ancestors, it returned the list with generation exactly as stated. When I run a narrative report for his ancestors it gives Gwil as 1st generation and us as second. What I am after is some way of identifying each person, at a glance, as to which generation relative to Gwilym they are. That is why I would like a colour scheme in the records window but I know you can't do this.
As for diagrams I know I am doing something wrong. I get into the options. If I set the orientation to top-down I get the diagram the correct way with Gwil at the bottom. However when I come to assign colours to the generations Gwil is gen1. Generation 2 colours do not make our line pink, our parents orange and so on.
I did play about with it changed the orientation to the opposite and going with Gwil as generation 1, us 2 etc. (Sorry this is sounding gobbled gook) I then gave the people I colours I have in my paper files and it worked but the diagram was the wrong way up and the generations were one out.

Away from diagrams I have added research on sibling's families so in my records window there are frankly names I'm not familiar with. I have a column for my husband's family, a Y, and a tick for my side of the family, (not sure how I managed to get the different symbols!), their dates are listed but I would like to know which generation, in relation to Gwilym they are.

When I looked at the records window several days ago I learned how to add new tabs and this morning I managed to get the custom id to show when the person's record appears there. So I think probably the best solution may be to change their custom id to say gen 1, (for me and my husband), our parents gen 2 etc and I can see this as soon as they appear in the record's window.
Mike these are not desperate issues, others have far more important problems. This is why I posted on "research" as I didn't want to bother the main forum. Thank you for your time and help.
Ann
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gwilym'smum
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by gwilym'smum » 07 Jan 2017 17:04

Mike,
I just used the expression you gave and put it as a column on the record's window and it seems to have given me what I want. I'm sorry I'm imposing on you now. Is it possible to run a query to list the individuals in each generation? Would I use the same expression but change the number after GENERATION?
Ann
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by tatewise » 07 Jan 2017 17:46

I have moved this to the FH General Usage Forum because it is not a Research topic.

The last digit in the function determines whether the 1st closest, or 2nd closest, or 3rd closest, etc, relationship is required, which is not what you want.

You could simply sort the Records Window on that Generation column to bring the relatives together.
Either click on column heading, or hold Alt key while clicking for a reverse sort.

There are several standard queries that include the Generation number using a similar function:
All Relatives
Ancestors
Just select Gwil when prompted for Starting Person.
Note that the Generation numbers here are -ve for ancestors and +ve for descendants.

You could write your own Custom Query with the function I gave in a Column.
Then on the Rows tab enter Add if =RelationCode(%INDI%,FileRoot(),GENERATION,1) is greater than -1.

For Diagrams in Diagram Options > Boxes tab use <<Add Condition > Generation.
That will provide up to 10 tabs Gen. 1 to Gen. 10 for you to customise colours for each generation.
No need to use the function I gave you, or any flags, or anything else at all.

Another option is in Diagram Options > General tab to set Relationship Descriptions to either or both sides.
Those reinforce the Generation stripes/boundaries.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by BobWard » 07 Jan 2017 21:43

I don't know if this suggestion would be of any value to the generational information that you are trying to display or not, but I will pass it along as something to play with. Forgive me if you are already familiar with this option.

When I generate my pedigree diagrams, I like to have something in each individual person box in the diagram to provide a quick indicator of how they are related to me (I am set as the "Root Person"). So, I create the diagram first, then click the "Diagram" tab at the top of the screen, select Options>Text, and then in the "Select Text Scheme" box, you can either EDIT an existing scheme or create a NEW custom scheme.

Whether you create a new custom scheme (or edit an existing one), be sure to add the item "Relationship to File Root". Once that item is added, then all the people boxes in the diagram will show how each person is related to your chosen "File Root", thus giving some quick insight into the generational relationship.

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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by gwilym'smum » 08 Jan 2017 07:41

As always thank you Mike and also thank you Bob. Mike after your last post I did think about sorting the records window on the generation tab and that was fine. Thanks Ann
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by gwilym'smum » 08 Jan 2017 09:08

I am really sorry but allocating the generation colours in a diagram is not working. (I tried a screen shot but didn't work)
The relationship is listed at left side of diagram which is great. However the colours are confused. I went to Options > general and the orientation is Top-Down. Boxes Tab and Condition > generation is highest priority.
Down to generation tabs: gen1 set to pink: gen 2 = orange: gen 3 = red: gen 4 = yellow: gen 5 = green: gen 6= blue: gen 7 = purple: gen 8 = bright pink: gen 9 = white. The root person should be white. (These are my settings throughout my research)
What I get: Root is pink
parents, gen 1 = white
grandparents, gen 2 = bright pink
ggrandparents, gen 3 = purple
2x grandparents, gen 4 = blue
3x grandparents, gen 5 = green
4x grandparents, gen 6 = yellow
5x grandparents, gen 7 = red
6x grandparents, gen 8 = orange
To me this is in reverse but not taking into account the root (making him gen 1)
If I change the orientation on the general tab to Bottom-Top the whole diagram reverses.
I'm sure that I must just have a tick in the wrong place somewhere, but the root is being included in the generations.
Ann
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by Gowermick » 08 Jan 2017 09:20

Ann,
Is your thinking reversed? If I said ' I am a 3rd generation scot', it means the 1st generation was my grandfather, the 2nd generation my father followed by me. I.e the generations count from oldest to newest. You are trying to apply this in reverse, with your son as 1st generation, you as 2nd generation etc which I think is incorrect.
So, unless you always start at a particular ancestor, your son's generation (and colour) will change dependant upon how far back your starting person is.

This could explain why your colours are reversed - just a thought!

You could test this by starting at different ancestors, and see if your son is always the same colour!
Mike Loney

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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by gwilym'smum » 08 Jan 2017 10:18

Hello Gowermick, Thank you for your thoughts. I have sorted the principle of the generation arrangement with Mike's help. I have my record's window with our son as root, and my husband and myself as generation 1, our parents as gen 2 etc. FH has generated the list for me and I have created a column for it, so I can have the record's window in this order. This is also the way they are shown when I run a query. I am probably just getting things confused.
I was originally just asking for people's thoughts on how to mark people's generation at a glance and I happened to mention diagrams and Mike took pity on me and helped me with the expression for my columns. Sadly although I followed the directions my diagram problem persists. I am going to send for the book "Making the Most of FH" so I won't have to keep troubling Mike and the list.
Ann
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by Gowermick » 08 Jan 2017 11:20

Ann,
Glad you have the records in the way you want them.

However, if what I said in my previous post holds true, I'm afraid no end of reading will cure your diagram dilemma!
I have the physical book, but it doesn't add an awfull lot to the free downloadable version. I suggest you try that first, before you fork out for the physical book. In saying that, some people, like me, prefer having a physical book to a digital one.

I'll experiment with diagrams myself later, (with the help of the book) and see if I can prove/disprove my theory, and whether using 'generation' flags could help you tailor the diagram to your needs. I'll let you know the outcome.

Just re-read Mike Tate's post, and just noticed his comment about -ve generations for ancestors. This would seen to support my theory that generations count forward from the oldest to the newest!
Mike Loney

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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by Jane » 08 Jan 2017 11:32

If you want to colour boxes based on the "file Root" rather than the diagram root you can simply use a similar expresion to that you have added to the record list. Then colour based on if it equals a value
Jane
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by gwilym'smum » 08 Jan 2017 12:48

I'm not trying to be argumentative but just a thought. If you don't number generations from the present root =0, parents = 1, grandparents = 2 etc and you reverse it, what happens if you allocate 1st generation to the furthest person you have? How can you go back any further? Eg I have my son's 7x great grandfather in two lines and I call them generation 9. If I call them generation 1, what do I do when I find Nathanial Parr's father or William Mayer's father? (Hoping I do!) I have no alternative but to renumber everybody in every line, finding one person then affects every line in my son's tree. Now I only have to find a new colour for the new generation. I am probably being too pedantic but many of my families have several generations with the same naming patterns for all the siblings and they are a nightmare to distinguish. This is my solution to segregating them. Thank everyone for their contributions.
Ann
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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by tatewise » 08 Jan 2017 14:40

OK, let me explain, and apologise for perhaps introducing a misleading expression.

The default FH generation numbering is, as Gowermick says, ascending through Descendants forward in time.
So if a person is generation 1, then their children are generation 2, and grandchildren generation 3, and so on.
For ancestors the generation numbers go in reverse -1, -2, -3, and so on.
BUT there are differences between =RelationCode(...,GENERATION,1) and Diagram > Boxes > Generation.
1) =RelationCode() uses the two Individuals supplied, whereas Diagram Generation works from the Diagram Root.
2) =RelationCode() assigns the Root person to generation 0, whereas Diagram Generation starts from Gen. 1.

Firstly regarding Diagrams:-
If say Gwilym is the Diagram Root then he will be coloured as Gen. 1.
His children will be coloured as Gen. 2 and grandchildren as Gen. 3 and so on.
His parents, aunts & uncles will be coloured as Gen. 9 or whatever is the right-most tab.
His grandparents, etc, will be coloured as Gen. 8 or whatever is the penultimate tab.
Then continue left through the tabs for further ancestor generations.
I suggested this technique as an easy way of colouring the generations, without a detailed explanation of the numbering, as I only though the colours mattered, but clearly it has confused things.

Secondly regarding =RelationCode(...,GENERATION,1):-
The standard usage is =RelationCode(Root-Person,Current-Person,GENERATION,1) and usually Root-Person is FileRoot().
If Current-Person is in same generation as Root-Person then they are generation 0.
Descendants of the Root-Person have +ve generation numbers 1, 2, 3, et seq, working forward in time.
Ancestors of the Root-Person have -ve generation numbers -1, -2, -3, et seq, working backward in time.
So a descendant always has a higher generation number than their ancestors, i.e. 3 > 1 and 1 > -1 and -1 > -3 etc.
That answers your question about going back before generation 0 as they simply keep counting backwards -1, -2, et seq.

BUT you want generations numbered the opposite way with Ancestors of Root-Person having +ve numbers 1, 2, 3, et seq.
So in my function the two Individuals are reversed thus =RelationCode(Current-Person,Root-Person,GENERATION,1).
That causes the numbers to go in the opposite direction and has led to the confusion - SORRY :oops:
This numbering has the same answer to how are the Root-Person's children numbered - they are -1, etc.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Organization of Generations

Post by gwilym'smum » 09 Jan 2017 07:47

Mike, once again thank you for your detailed work on my problem.
Being dim, I must admit I only understand some of your answer. You gave me exactly what I wanted in your reply on 7 Jan 14.03. I created a column on the records window with all the generations generated as I wanted. (I noticed that the children of people in the same generation as Gwilym had a negative number). I just wanted to transfer this information to a diagram. I was working on the ancestor diagram as the all relatives would make it too complex.
I have ordered the book "Making the Most of FH" . I will print off your reply and study it and see if I can follow.
Once again thank you.
Ann
Researching Mayer, Parr/Parr, Simcock, Beech and all related families

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