* Showing all ancestors in the diagram window

[Johnniebosh]

I am using version 6.2.2 - the latest I believe. When I use the 'open parent' blue arrow in the property box then I am able to add parents to the person on the diagram window. If I make this person 'Root' then these parents are presented within the diagram window, but, if the person is not root then the parents/ancestors are not shown on the diagram window. Question - how do I enable the system so that it shows all those parents/grand-parents et al added via the 'open parent window' from the property box at all times and not just when the parent is 'Root'? There must be a work-around ... but three days of referring to the User Group and twiddling all the knobs and keys I can find has produced zilch. Any advice will be appreciated ... please. Seasonal greetings to all (any) who read this crie-de-coeur - John

[trevorrix]

An easier method is to add people in the diagram itself. From the person you are working from, click his/her box, click and drag upwards at which you are asked to Add Father or Add Mother.

Similarly click and drag sideways to Add Spouse.

Click and drag downwards to Add Son or Add Daughter.

The added people are automatically shown in the diagram. No need to change the Root.

[LornaCraig]

Assuming you are using an All Relatives diagram, make sure the number of Generations up is set to All (on the General tab of Diagram Options). Otherwise the people you add won't display in the diagram if they are more than the set number of generations up from the diagram root.

More importantly, the diagram will only display "blood relatives" of the diagram root, or spouses of blood relatives. So it will display all direct ancestors of the diagram root as well as anyone who shares a common ancestor with them (siblings, cousins, nephews, etc) and spouses of those people. But it will not display parents of those spouses, because they are not blood relatives.

The technique Trevor describes is a good one, but it cannot overcome the limitations of the "blood relatives plus spouses" rule.

[tatewise]

Johnnie, since you have upgraded FH to V6.2, please update your FHUG Profile so it says so on the right of your postings.
Click your username Johnniebosh top right and choose User Control Panel.
Then on its Profile tab, select Family Historian V6.2 and scroll down to Submit.

What type of Diagram are you displaying? (Ancestor, Descendant, Ancestor & Descendant, All Relatives?)

What is the relationship between the Diagram root (with the white box) and this person whose parents you added?

Whether people are shown in a Diagram or not depends on the type of Diagram, the family relationships involved, and the number of Generations included.

[Johnniebosh]

Many thanks to all of you for coming back to me so quickly.
As in my original note - I can show these ancestors for individuals one at a time - but - this is not what I am hoping to do. I am trying to have all these hidden ancestors displayed within the diagram an all times.
Mike - I have now updated my profile ... sorry that I had not done this before.
In response to your specific questions: The root is a grandson - that way all my ancestors are displayed (excepting as below); the diagram is 'All relatives'; relationship of root to person whose ancestors I would like to be on permanent show is .... well - the root is a grandson and the person is my father's brother's wife - my aunt. BUT - in fact this aunt is but one of many relatives whose parents and/or grand parents I have added via the blue arrow in the property box ... and, says he ambitiously ... I would like all of these many ancestors to be shown at all times- if it is possible. It appears that the simplest (and most time consuming) solution is likely to be to drag and slide and then to enter them all again - but - is this the only solution?
Kindest regards - John

[Johnniebosh]

Hi Lorna
Thanks for coming back to me. From what you are saying then it would appear that I am never going to be able to achieve my intent since the system is unable to process such info. Would that be a fair interpretation of what you are telling me or have I made a BOO BOO in my understanding of your reply? If this is so - then - it appears that my only solution will be to drag and slide and re-enter all the info once again ... UGH!
Kind regards - John

[Johnniebosh]

Hi Trevor
From what I understand of the replies received then yours would, at the moment, appear to be the only way that I am going to be able to see all of the presently hidden ancestors of apparently parent-less ancestors. I had been hoping to avoid the many hours of duplicating the input of info .....
Kind regards - John

[LornaCraig]

You are correct in your understanding of my reply. An All Relatives diagram cannot display the parents of an uncle's wife, because they are not relatives (as FH defines relative) of the file root. As I said at the end of my previous reply, Trevor's method cannot help here. Re-entering the data by any other method will not make any difference.

You could try using an Everyone diagram (View>Standard Diagram Types>Everyone) but these diagrams are usually very messy if you have more than a few score individuals in your file. They have no file root but the layout usually needs a lot of rearrangement to make it look sensisble.

The best approach is to create your main diagram with the desired root and then use Diagram>Insert into Diagram>Ancestor Tree and select the uncle's wife as the root of this new tree. Then move the inserted tree to a suitable position so that her box is as near as possible to her box in the main diagram (or even overlaps it). However every time you add anyone to the main diagram it will shift slightly and the inserted tree may need to be moved as well.

The constraint of the All Relatives diagram is reasonable, as the layout would become chaotic and very difficult to follow if potentially all ancestors of anyone in the main tree were included.

However there is a Wish List item for an Entire Pool diagram, which you can vote for. (Edit: Mike has given the link to it in his reply below). Bear in mind that such a diagram would include not just ancestors of anyone in the tree but all relatives of anyone in the tree (e.g. not just your uncle's wife's ancestors but her siblings, aunts, nephew, cousins, and all their relatives....), so could become very cumbersome indeed.

[tatewise]

Johnnie unfortunately your FHUG Profile has not been updated. You probably forgot to scroll down to click Submit.

The All Relatives diagram is a slight misnomer, because it does NOT display all relatives of the root person.
It only display bloodline Ancestors, plus their Spouses and Descendants, but not Ancestors of those Spouses and Descendants.

The parents of your aunt do exist in the database and are relatives to you and your grandson.
Adding them again via the Diagram drag method will not help.
Double-click your aunt's box in the diagram to open her Property Box then click the blue up arrow to show her parents.

If you use View > Standard Queries > Search for Orphans (another misnomer) then your grandson, you, your aunt, her parents, etc, will all be in Pool 1, which means FH knows they are all related either directly or by marriage.

There is Wish List Ref 501 Entire Pool Diagram that would produce a Diagram for everyone in Pool 1 and you can go and Vote for it.

Currently, the only way to add your aunt's parents (and other parents) to your All Relatives diagram is as explained by Lorna using the Diagram > Insert into Diagram option. Then you must use Diagram > Save Diagram As > Family Historian Chart otherwise you will lose all those carefully inserted sub-trees. Subsequently, you must use View > Saved Charts and Open the appropriate chart.

[trevorrix]

First of all, don't re-enter people because that will create duplicate people.

What I would do in your situation would be to create an Ancestor and Descendant Diagram for the person that you are working on, add more people using the click and drag method, lock that diagram by right clicking that diagram icon in the vertical column on the left and Lock Window. If you wish to view ancestors or relatives of in-laws create another diagram with the relevant person in focus. You will then have two diagram icons in the vertical column on the left which you can flip between. Repeat to add more diagrams as necessary.

[LornaCraig]

The All Relatives diagram is a slight misnomer, because it does NOT display all relatives of the root person.

I think the FH definition is about right. While the term All Relatives is often misleading for new users I don't think it is really a misnomer. We do need a way to distinguish between All Relatives, Entire Pool and Everyone (all pools). The FH definition of a relative may seem a bit restrictive but the line has to be drawn somewhere. In everyday language that line is 'fuzzy' but we don't talk of everyone who is distantly connected to us as a 'relative'.

For example I am acquainted with my husband's niece's husband's parents, and if everyone in the chain were entered in FH we would be in the same Pool, but I don't think of them as relatives of mine.

If you go far enough back we all have ancestors in common . In that sense we are all part of 'one big family' (and even by FH's definition we are all relatives) but we don't normally regard everyone else as a relative.

I sympathise with those who want the option of an Entire Pool diagram with a chosen root, but it would only be workable for small pools or those where the more 'distant' relatives don't extend beyond one generation. Otherwise it becomes chaotic.

lock that diagram by right clicking that diagram icon in the vertical column on the left and Lock Window. If you wish to view ancestors or relatives of in-laws create another diagram with the relevant person in focus. You will then have two diagram icons in the vertical column on the left which you can flip between. Repeat to add more diagrams as necessary.

Regarding Trevor's suggstion, you don't need to lock diagrams manually every time. Use Tools>Workspaces and in the column headed Re-use of Open Windows Permitted select No against Diagram Window. Each diagram you open will then be displayed in a separate window.

[trevorrix]

My suggestion of manually using Lock Window is the method I use occasionally because I don't want diagrams to be locked all the time.

[Johnniebosh]

Many thanks to you all for taking the time at this approach to the 'busy season' to reply to me - very much appreciated.

Seasonal greetings to one and all ... and I do hope that Santa brings you all that you listed in your note to him.

Me? I am going to digest all the advice and see what suits my thoughts re Family trees ... but - after Christmas!

Kindest regards -

John

PS - I will slip over, re-enter and make sure that I hit the 'Submit' button in the revisions to my own profile ... sorry about that first time around!