Family Historian User Group

Hi,

I am wondering if there is a way that alternative names can be produced in the descendant outline reports? I can see that in the narrative report there is an option to include alternative names but not in the outline report which would be really useful. I am using V6.

Thanks in advance for any assistance with this matter.

Hayley.

Hi Hayley, this is a well known annoyance in such reports.

I think you are mistaken about Narrative reports as they have no option for Alternate Names either.

However, the Adjust AKA Names for Reports Plugin offers various workaround options.

All three standard Narrative reports have a tick-box Option for Inc. Alternate Names in version 6.2.

Sorry, I had not spotted that, but it still falls short of including all possible Name fields.

In the more... Names/Titles dialogue there are four additional fields (Name Prefix, Name Suffix, Given Name Used, Nickname), and on the All tab three more (Given, Surname Prefix, Surname).

The first three of those are added to the Primary Name in Narrative reports via the Adorn Names option, but the last four fields are never included, and none are added to Alternate Names.

So the Plugin may still have its uses.

Thank you all for your timely responses, much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Hayley.

tatewise wrote:... on the All tab three more (Given, Surname Prefix, Surname)...

So far as I can see, their loss is not material since they just duplicate bits of the Personal Name. Surname is already there in slashes, Given is already there outside the slashes and Surname-Prefix was a means of highlighting the (say) "de" part of "de Brus". Originally I had these names in my data because PAF (my first software) created them. Every so often I'd see these fossils on the oldest entries in my data - one day I realised I'd adjusted someone's name and the 3 fossil parts hadn't automatically updated (well, they wouldn't). Given the contradiction between the items, I then went on a process of deleting the 3 fossil parts.

None of the above should be taken as implying that GEDCOM's current name structure is perfect - it isn't, it's very - well, it's not even Eurocentric (it doesn't parse Spanish names), it's Anglo-American (and not even very American either since it doesn't parse Jackie Kennedy Onassis).

And certainly even with the structure as it is, narrative reports in FH are deficient. I've just checked one of my favourite great-uncles. He was registered as "Charles Edward" but known as "Ted". At the moment I have "Ted" as a nickname and no more, since I have no evidence that "Edward" was his Given-name-used - his 1939 Register shows "Charles E", but that may just be the enumerator shortening things. The result is that he is in the narrative reports as Charles. If I put his Given-name-used as "Edward", the reports show him as "Edward", which is better but still not right - for me.

Adrian, your observations are accurate. I only included the All tab fields for completeness.

It is odd that FH introduced Given Name Used (custom tag _USED) rather than utilise the standard Given (tag GIVN).
The Gedcom Name structures are a bit eccentric.

Yes, as I said, it is annoying that standard Nickname (tag NICK) is not included in Narrative reports even when Adorn Names is selected.

Even more annoying is that none of those Adorn Names fields are added to Alternate Names when that option is selected.

Surely Given in GEDCOM is just all the given names? "Charles Edward" for my Uncle Ted, for instance.... Whereas _Used would be Edward - if I could convince myself of that...

Frankly, in his case, I might set _Used to "Ted"....

Yes, but Given is distinct from the forenames in the Name field, so could have been used for Given Names Used, although it is perhaps not what GEDCOM intended "Given name or earned name. Different given names are separated by a comma.".
i.e. INDI.NAME.GIVN is not the same as INDI.NAME:GIVEN_ALL.
c.f. INDI.NAME.SURN is not the same as INDI.NAME:SURNAME.

GEDCOM also says: "The name value is formed in the manner the name is normally spoken, with the given name and family name (surname) separated by slashes (/). (See <NAME_PERSONAL>, page 48.) Based on the dynamic nature or unknown compositions of naming conventions, it is difficult to provide more detailed name piece structure to handle every case. The NPFX, GIVN, NICK, SPFX, SURN, and NSFX tags are provided optionally for systems that cannot operate effectively with less structured information. For current future compatibility, all systems must construct their names based on the <NAME_PERSONAL> structure. Those using the optional name pieces should assume that few systems will process them, and most will not provide the name pieces. Future GEDCOM releases (6.0 and later) will likely apply a very different strategy to resolve this problem, possibly using a sophisticated parser and a name-knowledge database." So the sub-pieces such as GIVN and SURN are only needed where the forenames and /surname/, etc, cannot be handled in the NAME field.
c.f. The ADDR field and all its sub-fields.