* Diagrams

[JennyG]

I am creating an all relatives diagram which uses the root person with no descendants. I want to show
siblings in birth order
1st spouse in left box
2nd spouse in right box
no dotted lines.
In Diagram Options I have opted for 2nd spouse on the right but it doesn't always work.
(I have done a screen print to illustrate what is happening and tried to insert it but without success.)

[tatewise]

I suspect your data is not in Date order, so use Tools > Reorder Out-of-Sequence Data.
Double check that multiple Spouses are shown in correct order on Spouse tab in the Property Box.

Use the 'Upload attachment' tab below edit box to attach a JPG/PNG image file. I suggest using the fhugdownloads:contents:utility_windows_snipping_tool|> Utility ~ Windows Snipping Tool to capture a screenshot.

[JennyG]

1. The link in the knowledge base doesn't work. It simply goes to support.
2. The spouses are in the correct order and are numbered 1 and 2 in the diagram.
I've tried using the sniping tool but despite ticking "automatically send to clipboard" in the options, clicking copy in edit and clicking on the copy icon it still won't paste so I can't show you what I've got unless there is an FHUG email I can use.

[tatewise]

1. Windows Snipping Tool.

Sorry about the KB link. MS keep changing their help pages. It is now correct, and there is an option on the right of the MS page to choose your Windows version.

You cannot use the clipboard method with copy & paste.
Use File > Save As... and create a PNG or JPG image file, then in the FHUG Upload attachment tab Browse to that saved image file and Add the file.

2. All Relatives Diagram.

Did Tools > Re-order Out-of-Sequence Data get the siblings in birth order on the diagram?

Are you saying that spouses 1 and 2 are shown correctly in the diagram now?

If not, then remember to include a screenshot of both the Property Box and the Diagram and ensure the Root person is included. (You can add up to 3 images to one posting.)

[JennyG]

It's nearly there. There are no longer any dotted lines but Simeon's two wives are now on the right although Adolphine's two husbands are showing correctly. I have uploaded the diagram and the property box.

[tatewise]

In your original posting you said "In Diagram Options I have opted for 2nd spouse on the right".
So in that case the Diagram is displaying exactly what you requested.

In the Diagram Options > General tab, click the Help button, and Spouse layout options description says:

2nd spouse on the right:
If a person has one spouse only, the spouse will appear on the right if female, and on the left if male.
A man with 2 spouses will appear to the left of both of them.
A woman with 2 spouses will appear between them.
Third, or greater, spouses will, in either case, appear on the far right.

The second sentence applies to the man Simeon with 2 spouses.
The third sentence applies to the woman Adolphine with 2 spouses.

If you choose the default option 2nd spouse on other side you should get what you wanted, according to the Help description.

Also note that the Shift Spouse buttons on the Movement Control Box can override those Spouse layout options.

[JennyG]

Thank you. It worked.
But I now have another question. When I ask for an "all relatives diagram" with the youngest descendent as the root I get dotted lines and married couples moved away from their place within the range of siblings and also with the two female spouses on the left of the male but if I ask for an "all relatives diagram" with the root as the oldest ancestor there are no dotted lines.

[tatewise]

The explanation is that different types of Diagram have to overcome how to display different relationships as clearly as reasonably possible.

Ancestor and Descendant and Ancestor and Descendant Diagrams are relatively straightforward because only blood relatives are involved in a standard hourglass family tree.

The All Relatives Diagram has more complex relationships to resolve.

The descendants part appears as a Descendant Diagram for the Diagram Root and their siblings. In other words it is a simple Descendant Diagram for the parents of the Diagram Root.

However, the ancestral part poses more challenges.
It appears you may have opted for the following Diagram Options:
General tab Flat style, and I advise you try the Layered style of the Installation Settings.
Proxies tab Never show proxy boxes, and I advise you try the Installation Settings.

The diagram attempts to show ancestral spouses in both their family relationships:
(1) As a full ancestor box close to their spouse(s) and with their children immediately below.
(2) As a dotted proxy box amongst their siblings in their parent family, and linked to (1) by a dotted line.
(Consider Pierre BARELLI whose parents do not appear in your 1st screenshot.)
Bear in mind that such siblings may have full descendant 'cousin' trees so the parent tree may be far from the spouse tree. You diagram is quite small, but imagine descendant trees on each of the straw coloured sibling boxes each with spouses.

The Help explains under Number out-of-sequence spouses how ancestral and non-ancestral spouses are displayed for All Relatives diagrams.

[JennyG]

Thank you. I hadn't thought it through in relation to larger family trees as this will only be relatively small as it is a birthday present. I'll try out your suggestions to make it as clear as possible.

[JennyG]

Having carried out further research, I have tried to layer the descendent diagram but it doesn't seem to want to change. I have attached a copy of the Diagram Options Box and the descendent diagram. Can you help please?

[tatewise]

Layering does not affect the Descendant part of an All Relatives Diagram.

It only affects the way Proxies and Generations are displayed in the Ancestor part.

If there are no Ancestors, there is little to be gained by using an All Relatives diagram as opposed to a Descendants diagram.

[JennyG]

i've used the descendent's diagram but as Jean Daniel had 3 wives and so many children I thought a layered diagram would allow it to be on one page thus making it easier to display in a pamphlet. Is this not possible?

[LornaCraig]

Yes, you can change the shape of the diagram but you need to use the Movement Control Box.

Click the icon second from the right in the Diagram Window Toolbar to open the Movement Control Box and then click the Help button in that box for guidance.

You will be able to adjust the shape of the diagram by using the 'Box and Bar' move to drag down the bar below Jean Daniel and his second wife, so that the other two wives and their children can move inwards and sit above that bar.

You could then also drag down Simeon Theophile's box, which will move his two wives with him, so that his siblings can move inwards above him and his wives.

I hope this helps.

[tatewise]

Another option that may help is to set Orientation to Left-right instead of Top-down.

[JennyG]

Thank you Lorna and Mike. My apologies for taking so long but I have had printer and internet synchronisation problems and they have taken priority. I have been experimenting with both and each has a benefit depending on the diagram. Thank you for showing me ways in which I can make diagrams easy for non-family history people to understand.