* New Pre-release: 6.1.2 - Show Media

[SimonOrde]

We have now updated the pre-release version of 6.1 again. The new version (still a pre-release) is 6.1.2. It includes quite a number of important new features - such as improved handling of media for source citations. For full details see the section New & Enhanced Features in 6.1.2 in http://www.family-historian.co.uk/downl ... ade-to-6.1.

Users of earlier pre-releases of 6.1 (that is, 6.1.0 and 6.1.1) can upgrade to 6.1.2 by clicking on 'Check for Updates' on the Help menu within Family Historian, and then clicking on the 'Upgrade Now' button.

If anyone wishes to post comments about 6.1.2, please post them here.

[LornaCraig]

The new checkboxes do not affect the behaviour of the ‘Add’ button which will always add either citation media for the currently selected citation, or fact media for the currently selected fact, depending on the context.

I understand why it has been made much easier to link Media to a Citation (for the benefit of FTM users who are used to linking Media to Citations).

HOWEVER...
(1) I think it needs to be made VERY clear that clicking the Add button in the Show Media dialog in this context will link new Media to the citation, not to the source. Many existing FH users will never have been aware of the possibility of linking Media to a citation, and are likely to assume that this is a new quick way of linking Media to a Source. There could be much confusion as a result! Perhaps there should be a warning about this when the Add button is clicked.

(2) Long term FH users are used to clicking the Show Media button in the Source Citation pane to see Media linked to the Source Record. This now seems to have been relegated to an optional extra (admittedly enabled by default), with the prime purpose now being to show Media linked to the citation. I think the two categories should be given equal weight. There should be two check boxes, one to Include Source Media and the other to Include Citation Media.

[NickWalker]

I agree with Lorna.

Previously if I clicked on a fact (e.g. Census), I could click the 'Show Media' button to view it in the Media window. Unless I'm missing something (I'm happy to be corrected!) it now takes me 4 clicks (last one a double click so 5 really) to view the image in the media window. To require 3 or 4 extra clicks to do a very common task is frustrating. (The steps I used are 'Show Media', click 'View', click 'View All in Media Window', double-click the image). As an alternative I could 'Show Media' and then double-click the image to show the 'Edit Media' dialogue but I'm not aiming to edit it and this dialogue isn't as good for viewing media. And this is still adding additional clicks.

I should also add that over recent years several of us have been explaining to FHUG members on the forums how to view the source media (which may have been added using the default method 1 in AS) saying 'simply select the fact and click view media' and that advice will no longer be correct and will be more complex to explain.

So please can you reinstate the show (source) media button (presumably alongside the new button) because any interface change that adds extra steps to a common task has to be a bad idea!

Thanks

Nick

[BillH]

I love the fact that now I can easily see media attached to a source, but I think it is confusing that when I go to Sources For: and select a source and then click on the Show Media button, that it shows the media attached to my source, but labels the window Citation Media for ...source-name.... Could the window be called something like Citation and/or Source Media for ...source-name...? Personally, I never attach media to a citatation.

I have a question as well. Once I am in this window and looking at media for sources (I have the Include Source Media option selected), what happens when I click on Add? Does this add the media to the citation or to the source? It isn't clear to me and there is no Help button on that window.

Thanks,
Bill

[NickWalker]

what happens when I click on Add? Does this add the media to the citation or to the source? It isn't clear to me and there is no Help button on that window.

It adds it to the Citation but I agree this isn't clear.

[BillH]

what happens when I click on Add? Does this add the media to the citation or to the source? It isn't clear to me and there is no Help button on that window.

It adds it to the Citation but I agree this isn't clear.

I'm beginning to think that what we really need is two Show Media buttons in the Source Window. One called Show Media for Source and one called Show Media for Citation. Then the window that pops up could be called either Citation Media for ...source-name... or Source Media for ...source-name... depending on which button you pushed. Then the buttons in the window could apply to either updating media for the appropriate Citation or Source and it would be more clear which one because it would say in the title of the window.

If that isn't possible, then I think it needs to be made REALLY clear on the window that using any of the buttons applies to the Citation not the Source!

Bill

[NickWalker]

Bill, I think the idea is that there is already a dialog window to allow you to add multimedia to a source (the source properties window that has been there for ever) and you can get to that via the 'right arrow' button next to the 'show media' button. But there hasn't been a citation media dialog before. I agree we need another button but as I said in my earlier post I'd prefer this to act as in previous versions.

[BillH]

Nick,

I agree. I knew about the other method, but I thought that if you are going to be able to see it directly from the sources pane it is confusing the way it is now. Two buttons would make this less confusing. If that can't be done then something needs to be done to make it less confusing.

Bill

[LornaCraig]

If that isn't possible, then I think it needs to be made REALLY clear on the window that using any of the buttons applies to the Citation not the Source!l

Yes, that is the first point I made in my post above.

It looks as if several of us are in agreement that while accommodating the needs of FTM users, Calico Pie are in danger of creating confusion for long term FH users.

I also agree with Nick that it is a backward step to have to make several more mouse clicks to view Source Media in the Media window.

[NickiP]

I understand why it has been made much easier to link Media to a Citation (for the benefit of FTM users who are used to linking Media to Citations).

I doubt many FTM users actually manually added media to Source citations, its more to do with how the TreeSync facility in FTM works with the Ancestry website. I know when I was previously using FTM2012 (prior to moving to FH), I only ever manually added media to Facts. At that time I didn't have any trees on the site to sync with. If any FTM user did add this manually, they will most likely be the exception to the rule.

I agree with Lorna.

Previously if I clicked on a fact (e.g. Census), I could click the 'Show Media' button to view it in the Media window. Unless I'm missing something (I'm happy to be corrected!) it now takes me 4 clicks (last one a double click so 5 really) to view the image in the media window. To require 3 or 4 extra clicks to do a very common task is frustrating. (The steps I used are 'Show Media', click 'View', click 'View All in Media Window', double-click the image). As an alternative I could 'Show Media' and then double-click the image to show the 'Edit Media' dialogue but I'm not aiming to edit it and this dialogue isn't as good for viewing media. And this is still adding additional clicks.

It now behaves as has always been the case with "Show Media" in the Facts Tab.

I'm beginning to think that what we really need is two Show Media buttons in the Source Window. One called Show Media for Source and one called Show Media for Citation. Then the window that pops up could be called either Citation Media for ...source-name... or Source Media for ...source-name... depending on which button you pushed. Then the buttons in the window could apply to either updating media for the appropriate Citation or Source and it would be more clear which one because it would say in the title of the window.

If that isn't possible, then I think it needs to be made REALLY clear on the window that using any of the buttons applies to the Citation not the Source!

Bill

I'd prefer only one "Show Media" button because of limited screen space. However, what would be better was if the Citation Media Window had the option of an Add Source Media as well as Add Citation Media, ie Source Media, as has already been mentioned, wasn't relegated to an optional extra as it appears to have been now designated. This I would find much more useful. As it now stands I'm still going to have to go the Records Window Sources Tab to add citation media to any newly manually created Source Records (and virtually all my Source Records are manually created.

I have to say I prefer that Show Media in the Citation window now works the same way as Show Media in Facts, but I can see why it's not preferred by anyone used to using it the old way. That said, without the option to Add media to Source Records as well as Source Citations, its not really going to be much use for me.

[BillH]

I'd prefer only one "Show Media" button because of limited screen space. However, what would be better was if the Citation Media Window had the option of an Add Source Media as well as Add Citation Media, ie Source Media, as has already been mentioned, wasn't relegated to an optional extra as it appears to have been now designated.

I think this would probably work as well.

One problem with having Source and Citation media mixed in the window is that you can't easily tell by looking at the media which is for the Source and which is for the Citation unless I'm missing something. That is why I suggested two Show Media buttons. If you are going to have only one Show Media button, it would be nice if there was some type of indicator on each media item to show which type it is (Source or Citation).

Another issue is that while you can show just Citation media or both Citation and Source media combined, there doesn't seem to be a way to show just Source media, which would be useful.

Bill

[NickiP]

The Facts "Show Media" allows for Source Media and Citation Media now to be shown in that view, but there are tick boxes which can be deselected so that they don't show in that Facts Media view. Something like that for both Citation Media and Source Media would be better, along with an "Add" option for both rather than just Citation. As probably would be renaming the window so its not simply for Citation.

[BillH]

The Facts "Show Media" allows for Source Media and Citation Media now to be shown in that view, but there are tick boxes which can be deselected so that they don't show in that Facts Media view.

I hadn't looked at the Fact Media window before. Something like this might work, but doesn't the same problem exist here? The Fact Media window shows either Citation media or Source media or both, but I'm guessing the Add button can only be used for adding media to the Citation, not to the Source. Is that right? It looks like the Fact Media window could also use two Add buttons as well and also an indicator of whether the media shown is for a Citation or a Source when both media options are selected.

Bill

[NickiP]

The Fact Media window shows Facts media and allows via tick box both Source media and/or Citation media to show. The Add button relates to Facts media only, just as the Citation media window in its current form only allows to Add Citation media. Don't see the need for the Add button on Facts Media window to be expanded for the other two. It would be more logical for the Citation Add media window to be expanded to allow you to Add Source media.

[NickWalker]

It now behaves as has always been the case with "Show Media" in the Facts Tab.

Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't used the 'Fact Media' window before so I can see why Simon has used a similar mechanism. I think this is a good idea, but the major issue I have is that it now takes several more clicks to view a source image than it did before.

I can see the logic behind the 'Include' tick boxes is that the Fact Media window always shows Fact media but there are now options to also show citation media and source media too. 'Facts' link to 'Citations' which link to 'Sources' (in a hierarchy) so we're being shown the Fact media but are given the option to view images in the 2 levels in the hierarchy below 'Facts'. The new citations media window mimics this and gives you the option to view the images in the sources, 1 level below in the hierarchy. Source media already has its own dedicated media 'window' when you look at the properties of a source.

What has always made this whole area so confusing is that in the yellow citation panel you are shown a list of sources but really this is meant to represent a list of citations. But citations don't have names so they show the name of the source they're linked to instead. So unless you're an experienced user who understands citations and sources you're going to be very confused as to whether you are adding your media to the citation or the source because they both use the same name! I suspect this is why the citation media was so hidden in previous versions because of the confusion it causes but they've now had to be made more visible to cater for those migrating from FTM, etc.

I agree with Bill that the media in both the fact and citation windows need to be distinguished in some way. Either by splitting them into sections in the window or by indicating their type perhaps with a small indicator. I also agree that the Add button on the Citation Media window needs to give an option as to whether you wish to add source or citation media because of the confusion that users have over citations and sources.

[DarrylGale]

I've tested my FTM with the new citation method and it's an excellent job done by the Calico Pie crew. I have only tested on current FH data and have not yet loaded a new Gedcom to test other enhancements.
I agree with all the comments above there should be something to indicate that media can be attached to the citation or a source - perhaps 2 different buttons, a drop down list to choose, or something to that effect - current FH users can be confused with a major directional change here.
In the Sources tab on the "Pics etc" column it shows the number of source pictures but not the number of citation pictures (it's linked to the individual). If a picture is attached to a citation it's part of the source so it should be shown - perhaps a new column heading is required such as "Citation media."

[DarrylGale]

Doc7.docx

(221.83 KiB) Downloaded 214 times

If you're a FTM user using a citation to record your data and attach media then my enhancement recommendation is the only way to go as it matches the FTM method.
FH Source - if you have a census you may record the Pro, Piece, Folio etc in the "Title." The transcript of the census i.e. name, relation, head, age, etc may be recorded in the "Text from Source."
FTM method now to be recorded within a FH Citation - Pro, Piece, Folio etc will be in the "Where Within Source." The transcript of the census i.e. name, relation, head, age, etc will be recorded in the "Text from Source."

[tatewise]

I wonder if a better solution is to have just one Show Media button on the Facts tab as before, and leave the yellow Source (Citations) pane toolbar as it was before.

That Facts tab Show Media button would open a two pane window that borrows its structure from both the Notes and Media tabs of the Individual/Family Property Box.

The upper pane would list each Media item (possibly with Fmt, Pref, Date, Age, Flags columns like the Media tab) plus a Type column like the Notes tab. The Type would indicate whether the item was a Fact Media Record, Fact Local Media, Citation Media Record, or Citation Local Media and use the Source record name to distinguish between multiple citations, i.e. list all Media closely linked to the Fact. The icon on the left of each item would also help identify the Type.

The Media right-click & double-click options, and the toolbar buttons would be similar to the Media tab (but might benefit from a Show in Multimedia Window button).

The lower pane would display one or all images as the Media tab does now depending on the toolbar buttons.

The Add Media option would need to offer Insert From File and Link to Existing Media for each Type of Media, in the same way the Notes tab offers Add Note for each Type of Note. So each Citation Media would be chosen in a similar way each Couple is chosen for Notes.

The advantages of this approach are that:

• the yellow Sources (Citations) pane will remain familiar to established users;
• the Fact Media window will behave much like the familiar Media and Notes tabs
  (needing no more clicks than current Fact Media window);
• it would minimise confusion about what Type of Media is being viewed or added;

I believe it would be quite intuitive.

The concept could be extended to include Source record Media linked via the Citations. From one prespective that may be too confusing, but it would highlight all the ways Media can be associated with a Fact.

[NickiP]

Mike I'm sorry but that would not be leaving the Show Media on the Facts tab as it currently is and for people like me who use the Show Media on the Facts tab heavily to add and edit media, that completely changes the way it works and would mean we end up using considerably more clicks.

We are established users too.

I appreciate that those who use the Source Show Media for checking media they've added through AS don't like the new format, but some of some of us, including myself, use the Facts Show Media to add media manually and the impact would be far greater as it will affect considerably the way we work. I don't use AS and don't want to have to because I'd still have to do a lot of extra editing in FH to achieve the same results that I can achieve more quickly adding manually to both Facts Media and creating Sources.

I appreciate that many some don't like the changes to the Source Show Media, but changing the Facts Show Media will impact on others more than I suspect the current changes have.

[tatewise]

Please read what I described carefully again. It would add NO EXTRA CLICKS to Add Media button to add a Media to a Fact.
The drop-list options as I see it would be:
Insert Fact Media From File same as current Insert Media From File
Link Fact to Existng Media Record same as current Link to Existng Media Record
Insert Citation Media From File is new see below
Link Citation to Existing Media Record is new see below
Paste Copied Image same as currently
The first two (and last one) behave EXACTLY as the current three options.
The two Citation options need to choose which Citation when more than one just like the Notes tab chooses Couples.

BTW: I believe we have discussed using AS to add Media to Facts before, but for the benefit of others, AS does support that mode of adding Media in its Method 2 options.

[NickiP]

Please read what I described carefully again. It would add NO EXTRA CLICKS to Add Media button to add a Media to a Fact.
The drop-list options as I see it would be:
Insert Fact Media From File same as current Insert Media From File
Link Fact to Existng Media Record same as current Link to Existng Media Record
Insert Citation Media From File is new see below
Link Citation to Existing Media Record is new see below
Paste Copied Image same as currently
The first two (and last one) behave EXACTLY as the current three options.
The two Citation options need to choose which Citation when more than one just like the Notes tab chooses Couples.

I did read your post, its just a bit confusing. Yes the above may be as currently, but then you go on about:

That Facts tab Show Media button would open a two pane window that borrows its structure from both the Notes and Media tabs of the Individual/Family Property Box.

The upper pane would list each Media item (possibly with Fmt, Pref, Date, Age, Flags columns like the Media tab) plus a Type column like the Notes tab. The Type would indicate whether the item was a Fact Media Record, Fact Local Media, Citation Media Record, or Citation Local Media and use the Source record name to distinguish between multiple citations, i.e. list all Media closely linked to the Fact. The icon on the left of each item would also help identify the Type.

Sorry Mike but with the section on a two pane window, you appear to be suggesting that the Facts Show Media would work like the previous Source Show Media window. This would mean that in addition to media directly linked to the Fact, it would also show all the time Source and Citation media relating to the Fact. I don't want this. I prefer the option currently with the tickbox to remove these from being show. Similarly, your new method appears to suggest that after creating a Source Record though the Citation window, you would then need to return to the Facts tab to use an expanded Show Media window to add the Media to the newly created Source Record, or for that matter Citation? That would be no improvement on the current situation of having to go the the Source Records, right click it and go to the Media Tab. It would also mean that FTM users wishing to continue with adding Media to Source Citations would have to change to the Facts Tab too in order to add the Media file. I personally don't see how more intuitive that would be and would suggest that you are only putting this forward to try and get the Show Source Media returned to the limited functionality that it previously had because the new version means that those of you wishing to view the media though that window have to make a few more clicks. It may be better if some method of viewing the media through the Citation Window was introduced that needed less clicks than the new version currently does rather than completely changing the new method and moving it to the Facts Show Media.

BTW: I believe we have discussed using AS to add Media to Facts before, but for the benefit of others, AS does support that mode of adding Media in its Method 2 options.

Yes I've been told previously by both you and Nick Walker about the benefits of AS. I just don't feel it helps speed up the way I work and in any case, and I'm sure yourself and others may think its overboard, but I now have media linked to both Facts and Source Records, but not Source Citations. The reason for this is I link a full media file to the Fact concerned so that I know I have a copy, but with the Source Record for the Fact I include an edited version of the media file which just relates to the Fact details so that this shows in the Source section of the Narrative Report. This reduces the size of the Source section on Narrative Reports because I have very large Trees but enables me to show the original part document for the Fact concerned in the report. There is no way of providing a usable and readable version of the media in Narrative Reports from the Facts Media.

I appreciate that some of you don't like the way the Source Show Media has changed, but I don't actually think changing the Facts Show Media completely would be a better way forward and feel it isn't as intuitive as you seem to think.

[NickWalker]

I don't use AS and don't want to have to ....

AS has nothing to do with this so I'm not sure why you've mentioned it. Firstly AS users can add images to facts, citations or sources. Secondly, if AS didn't exist and I hadn't ever created it, I would still have linked images to sources and would have been using that 'Show Media' button for the last few years to show sources. And I find the new changes which add several clicks to this process means that I would not want to install this update on my main PC. I just want the existing button to be retained or an alternative solution which doesn't make FH more difficult for me to use.

[NickiP]

Nick I know AS has nothing to do with this, other than I suspect those complaining about the increased number of clicks to Show Media for Sources don't actually create Sources in FH but use AS.

It was Mike that raised the issue of whether I understood about AS and adding Sources. My response was to indicate I don't use AS and don't wish to. I can appreciate the benefits of AS for some users and the way they work, it just doesn't benefit me.

I can appreciate the desire for the previous Source Show Media button to be retained and personally I would like to see it as have occasionally used this. What I don't feel is necessary is Mike's suggestion of completely changing the Facts Show Media in order to reinstate the Sources Show Media to the previous way. The current changes have obviously been made by Calico Pie to accommodate FTM users. I'm sure there must be a better way of accommodating all users with minimal changes.

[LornaCraig]

I suspect those complaining about the increased number of clicks to Show Media for Sources don't actually create Sources in FH but use AS..

I use AS for some purposes but also create many, many sources myself in FH.
But that is beside the point. For me, the issue has nothing to do with how Sources are created. The point is that I very often want to look quickly at Media I have already linked to a Source in the past. I want to be able to continue to do that with a single click on the Show Media button in the Source pane.

The other very important point is that is must be made absolutely clear that there is a difference between adding Media to a Source and adding it to a citation. Calico Pie are in a difficult situation here because the majority of established FH users have probably never added Media to a citation or even realised that it was possible to do so, while the majority of FTM users may never have linked Media directly to a Source.

I think that having two buttons in the Source pane, one for Source Media and one for Citation Media, would probably be the best compromise.

[BillH]

The Fact Media window shows Facts media and allows via tick box both Source media and/or Citation media to show. The Add button relates to Facts media only, just as the Citation media window in its current form only allows to Add Citation media. Don't see the need for the Add button on Facts Media window to be expanded for the other two. It would be more logical for the Citation Add media window to be expanded to allow you to Add Source media.

Thanks for the explanation. I've never used this window before as I never add media to facts. Now I understand.

Bill