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FTM Shown Mills Source Templates

Posted: 15 Jan 2016 15:13
by AdrianBruce
In FH V6.1 and FTM Citation Media (13239):
DarrylGale wrote:... "one of the issues is that if you use the excellent FTM Shown Mills Source Templates, these do not appear to be addressed by any GEDCOM transfer as yet....." so this could be another source/citation issue for Calico Pie to consider to win over FTM users...
The basic issue there, unless I misunderstand, is that Source Templates do not map into the GEDCOM structure. An ESM template could be multi-layer (e.g. Source1 citing Source2 citing Source3 - not sure if there are any 3 layer citations but I can't see why not.) However, data from such a structure cannot be written into a GEDCOM structure and then retrieved back into its component parts as, in simplistic terms, the GEDCOM Source-Record is a single layer.

Overcoming this limitation is a pig. Even FTM didn't do it, as experiments in the BetterGEDCOM effort showed conclusively that even FTM couldn't round-trip its templates into its own GEDCOM file and then read it back out into templated values.

The obvious solution is - "extend GEDCOM to include the ESM template items". Any idea how many of those there are? I have - someone turned the ESM templates into an Excel spreadsheet and I did some work on counting how many unique items there were. I came to 666. (OK, I admit I fiddled it - merged obvious matches until I got that number and then stopped - but the point is that it was in the hundreds. And a new item or two possibly for every new template).

And even if Calico Pie could square the circle and work out how to store templated citations inside GEDCOM - we're stuck that FTM doesn't export them sensibly onto its own GEDCOM export.

Please don't misunderstand me - this is not dismissing the desire for templated citations. (And it's always possible you mean a different thing by them) but it really is a pain in the proverbial trying to work out how it could be done in a universally agreed manner.

Re: FTM Shown Mills Source Templates

Posted: 15 Jan 2016 16:52
by tatewise
It may not be a suitable solution, but a great many GEDCOM structures can (indirectly) have a Source. That is because there are so many Notes and each one can have a Source attached.

So a Source record, could have a dummy local Note (perhaps with the text Shown Mills Source) and that Note can have a full Source Citation structure, and so on ad infinitum.

Re: FTM Shown Mills Source Templates

Posted: 15 Jan 2016 16:58
by AdrianBruce
... which could provide some sort of mechanism for layering. Tricky to get back to the pukka ESM format citation, though.

Re: FTM Shown Mills Source Templates

Posted: 15 Jan 2016 18:41
by davidm_uk
I know nothing about ESM templates, so maybe this is totally irrelevant, but what about having one or more ESM source records, with a multimedia attachment(s) of the template. Ok, if it's a document, pdf or doc etc, it won't display within FH, but if clicked will open in your default program for that document type so that you can then view/edit it.

Sorry if that's a stupid idea!