* Auto import of image metadata

[GordonH]

All the photos I import to Family Historian (V6) have been prepared as jpegs in Photoshop. As part of that process I add metadata to the image using the Photoshop 'file info' panel. This is a worldwide industry standard way of recording relevant info within the images such as keywords, title, date and much else besides.

Ideally I'd like FH to pick up that info and post it to the relevant fields in the FH media record when I import the photo to FH. So far I have found no way of making this happen. In FH Tools>Preferences>Media there is a check box entitled "Copy Image Tag Values to Media Record". I ticked that, unticked "Autogenerate Keywords" hit the 'Apply' button, closed FH and reopened FH in the hope that would do the trick.

Unfortunately it didn't work. I have such a huge number of photos to import this would be an enormous time saver if FH could just pick up the metadata from the appropriate image metadata fields. The image metadata fields I use within the Photoshop 'File Info' tab are 'Document Title', 'Keywords' and 'Date Created'. Also, the industry standard for recording of keywords is to separate them by a semicolon. Photoshop will allow commas to be used on input but when the record is saved Photoshop converts them to semicolons. It would be helpful if FH can pick up keywords from the image metadata to recognise semicolons as keyword separators.

Does anyone know of a way to have FH automatically import the metadata already recorded in photos?

[LornaCraig]

I don't think the "Copy Image Tag Values to Media Record" option works retrospectively (is that what you hoped?). It should however have effect when new media are added. This is from the Help files:

Tag values.JPG (29.65 KiB) Viewed 15413 times

Someone more knowledgeable than me may be able to tell you whether the data can be copied retrospectively from media already linked to FH, (if so it would need to be done with a plugin).

I don't use this feature myself, but think the reason the option is not selected by default is that when it was introduced during beta testing some people complained that it was very misleading to put the date the file was created into the date field for the Media record. A scan of a photo may have been created yesterday, but the photo itself may be decades old, and people ususally want to record the date of the original photo.

[tatewise]

I suspect the Copy Image Tag Values to Media Record option that you have enabled, is only applied when a Media image file is linked into FH. It is not applied retrospectively for existing Media already linked into FH. So try linking a new image into FH to see if its EXIF data is captured.

I think there is a Plugin library module Digital Imaging Tool that may be able to extract EXIF data from images and update the Media records, but I have not used the module for that.

[GordonH]

Thanks Mike and Lorna for your thoughts. I wasn't expecting (or wanting!) the facility to apply retrospectively, only for new records being imported from now on. However I couldn't get it to work for new records. I'll look into this again tomorrow in the hope that I'll find a way to make this work. Maybe I've omitted to do something. I'll post back here again tomorrow.

[GordonH]

I forgot to mention that the date recorded in the Exif 'date created' field is the date the photo was taken, not the date the file on the computer was created.

[tatewise]

Gordon, double check that the Copy Image Tag Values to Media Record option is still ticked.
It certainly imported EXIF values during FH V6 Beta testing when new Media images were copied into FH along with a new Media record.

[GordonH]

Thanks Mike, that's good to know! I'll check it all out again tomorrow and post the results back here.

[GordonH]

No Joy in getting this feature to work I'm afraid. Firstly I made sure that Tools>Preferences>Media was set as follows;

1. I unchecked 'Autogenerate Keywords' because I want FH to use the keywords already embedded in the metadata
2. I checked 'Copy Image Tag Values to the Media Record'

Then I hit the 'Apply' button. Next, in the media window, I added an image from another folder that I had previously prepared with Photoshop with the relevant metadata (title, keywords, date created) already recorded in the appropriate fields. I used the option to import the image into the FH Media folder rather than just having a link to it. FH did the following when filling in the Media Record fields for this image;

1. It set Title equal to the file name of the image - "42198-005"
2. It left the Date blank.
3. It left the Keywords field blank.

I exited from FH then opened FH again. Now when I go to Tools>Preferences>Media I see that FH has, of its own bat, at some point checked 'Autogenerate Keywords' despite the fact that as mentioned above I had previously unchecked and applied that setting! On playing with the setting I discover unchecking it will not stick. Whenever you exit from FH then subsequently open FH again 'Autogenerate Keywords' will be checked.

I decided to try adding a photo again but this time with the 'Autogenerate Keywords' checked. The only difference that made was to set the word 'Picture' into the Keywords field.

Finally I checked that Windows Explorer (Windows 8.1) was able to see the embedded metadata by selecting the image file in question and getting it to display its Properties. My thinking is that if Windows can see it there is no reason why FH can't. The metadata can be seen on the Windows Properties Details tab with the exception of the date created which shows the date the file was created as opposed to the date the photo was created. But I can confirm that the image 'Date Created' field is correctly recorded in the correct field on the IPTC tab as illustrated on page 11 this guide to IPTC metadata standards at https://www.iptc.org/std/photometadata/ ... uide_6.pdf I have also added an attachment that shows the actual metadata in the image I have used for my tests.

Have I omitted to do something that would make this FH feature work? If not perhaps I should report this to Calico Pie as a bug?

[TimTreeby]

Well definitely works, at least with data added through Widows Details pane.
Data as seen in Windows

ExifData.PNG (23.09 KiB) Viewed 15340 times

Data as put into FH.

FHData.PNG (10.91 KiB) Viewed 15340 times

[GordonH]

That's encouraging Tim, hopefully I can get to that stage too. When I look at the Windows detail pane I can also see the metadata but I can't get FH to pick it up for some reason. Can you confirm what preference settings you have used to make this happen? I use Photoshop to embed the metadata in the image, what do you use?

[GordonH]

Sorry Tim, just realised you've already said you added the data through the Windows detail pane!

[jimlad68]

Gordon

Metadata/ EXIF data is a great idea but often inconsistent between products, especially so for pictures. I found in the past that Windows explorer was inconsistent with many products but it looks like FH uses the Windows format (after Tim's post) and I suspect from my past dalliances that Photoshop EXIF data often does not show in Windows Explorer columns. Things might have improved, Windows 7 Explorer certainly has a lot more column options.

The other problem with pictures is changing format, even lossless. For instance my preferred format (another long story) is the lossless *.png which does not even contain metadata, also some programs will read your file, perhaps rotate it or otherwise edit, and lose all your metadata in the process.

With pictures I found it easier (safer?) to contain as much structured information in the filename, and if that was not long enough, create an additional txt file or document with same filename to accompany it. The downside of this is the files could get separated, the upside you can have much more detail. I suppose if you want the best of all worlds you can create pdf files, ensuring your embedded image is is not reduced in quality, but they are not always displayed easily, even in FH!

[tatewise]

I have gone through a similar exercise.

Using Windows Explorer (on Vista) via the Properties window I set the Title, Tags, Comments, Date taken fields. They also appear in the EXIF window within IrfanView.

Those details imported exactly as expected into the FH Media record.

Gordon said that Date created was shown incorrectly in the Properties window of Windows Explorer but mine shows correctly on the Details tab, and different from Created date in the General tab.

I am no expert, but it appears that EXIF and IPTC data are not necessarily the same thing.

What concerns me is Gordon said Autogenerate Keywords will not remain cleared, which suggests some operational problem with FH &/or Windows Registry.

Firstly have you installed FH V6.0.4?
Secondly try re-installing with Administrator privileges as described in how_to:family_historian_installation_problems|> Family Historian Installation Problems > Introduction to see if that allows Autogenerate Keywords settings to stick and maybe cure your Media EXIF problem too.

[GordonH]

Thanks Jim. When I look at my image with Windows Explorer I can see the metadata I want FH to use is in exactly the same Windows fields as shown in Tim's example.

So the problem now is why is FH picking up this data in Tim's case but not in mine. We are both using the same version of FH. I am on Windows 8.1 and I'm just wondering if Tim is on a different version of Windows? Not that that should really make a difference... Still playing around with this trying to find a solution....

[GordonH]

Thanks Mike, I haven't upgraded to 6.0.4 and I'm just about to do that now. If that doesn't work I shall enter the metadata via Windows Explorer then see if that makes a difference.

[GordonH]

I have now upgraded to 6.0.4 and the problem with 'Auto Generate' keywords is fixed in that version. When I uncheck it now stays unchecked. Unfortunately that is the only real progress made so far. The metadata is still not being picked up by FH.

Next I tried entering the metadata with Windows explorer to see if that made a difference. That resulted in one small step forward, the Date Created is picked up but its still not picking up the Title or Keywords that were also entered with Windows Explorer. I'm now pondering what to try next....

[jimlad68]

Apol, this keyed on a small device,
Just a thought, are you using old dates e.g. 1800s? Would that create a problem as I don,t think windows caters before a certain date.

[tatewise]

Jim, I tried 01/01/1796 and all OK.

Gordon, did you use the Run as Administrator technique I suggested to install FH?

Try unchecking Copy Image Tag Values to the Media Record, close & open FH, then check Copy Image Tag Values to the Media Record.

Exactly which FH commands are you using to add the image and create the Media record?

[GordonH]

Just noticed your reply Mike (re administrator etc) as I posted the note below about current progress. Will get back to you on the points you raise as soon as I check out your ideas - thanks again.

--------

Progress of a sort. I created a brand new image (with Photoshop) but added no metadata.

Next I added metadata to the image via Windows Explorer then I added the updated image to FH. The metadata was imported to FH. Next I opened the imported image in Photoshop and it also displayed the metadata correctly in it's file info panel. All is well so far.

Next I updated the image metadata (title and keywords) in Photoshop and saved it as a new image. I added that new image to FH and it imported the updated title and original date, but no keywords! Yet windows explorer shows the updated keywords correctly, but FH somehow doesn't see them at all, none of them!

Struggling to make sense of this.

I really would like to solve this issue using Photoshop because it (and it's management tool Bridge) is my primary means of managing all my image libraries and metadata.

[GordonH]

Gordon, did you use the Run as Administrator technique I suggested to install FH?

Try unchecking Copy Image Tag Values to the Media Record, close & open FH, then check Copy Image Tag Values to the Media Record.

Exactly which FH commands are you using to add the image and create the Media record?

So sorry Mike, I missed your point about running as administrator during install of 6.0.4. I am now running FH 6.0.4 as administrator for all my current FH tests if that helps?

I've unchecked Copy Image Tag Values to the Media Record, closed & opened FH, then checked Copy Image Tag Values to the Media Record.

When I add images I am in the media window, I use the Add menu command, then I use the navigation window to locate the file in question, select it and use the default option to copy the image file into the media folder.

I am currently running more tests to try and understand why Photoshop and Windows can both see the required metadata in the image file(regardless of whether Windows Explorer of Photoshop was used to enter it) but FH only sees it if Windows Explorer entered it. It's very strange and I'm struggling to make sense of it. All the image files are jpegs.

I am beginning to think that I should just use Explorer to initially enter the metadata as that certainly seems to enable FH to import it but still allows Photoshop to see it. But why there should be this strangeness is one of these things that niggles me till I get to the bottom of it, or I get exhausted! Will post back later when I get to the end of my tests...

Many thanks for your thoughts.

[tatewise]

Gordon, there is a big difference between just running in an Administrator account and using the right-click Run as administrator option.

See how_to:family_historian_installation_problems|> Family Historian Installation Problems > Introduction for a detailed explanation, including Anti-Virus and Safe Mode advice.

[GordonH]

I think I am running as administrator Mike. I went to my list of programs, right clicked on Family Historian and selected 'Run as Adminstrator'. Is that not what you meant?

[tatewise]

Yes, that is correct.
Did you do the same when installing FH V6.0.4?
Did you heed the Anti-Virus and Safe Mode advice?
For the 3rd time, see how_to:family_historian_installation_problems|> Family Historian Installation Problems > Introduction.

[GordonH]

I use Sophos anti-virus and did not switch that off. I took the view that if there were a conflict between running FH in administrator mode and my AV that either FH or AV would warn me of a conflict. There have not been any such messages.

When I boot windows 8.1, unlike any other OS I have had, it does not offer me a safe mode option during the boot process so as far as I am aware that's not an option open to me. Or if it is I don't know how to invoke it.

I've been running FH as administrator for the last hour or so and no issues have arisen. I'm still conducting FH tests to discover what's behind the metadata issues and it's beginning to look as if the tests will have to continue tomorrow.

[jimlad68]

Gordon, re your experiments with where to apply your metadata, as I said before different programs use it differently, photoshop might have its default for storing the data differently to Windows, if it reads windows metadata, it might then save it "as it found it". If you look around the photoshop forums you might find a way of saving/moving the data to windows format. I also think that photoshop was originally a mac product, hence different standards.