Family Historian User Group

I'm also confused about how to record Sources. I have just read Catherine's question posted earlier this week and the responses to that have cleared up quite a few of my questions, but I'm still unsure about where to record Sources when I'm getting the information from Ancestry. (I take the point from Catherine's thread that there's no single right way to do it and consistency is the most important thing, but I'm still reckining there must be a "best practice" answer!).

For example, I have 3 sources for the death of one of my ancestors in 1844

(1) The Parish Register entry on Ancestry
(2) The FreeBMD Death Index entry on Ancestry giving me the GRO reference
(3) A copy of the Death Certificate from GRO [I haven't actually got this, but I could get it if I wanted it]

Ancestry gives this as 'Source':

(1) For the Parish Register it gives both 'Source Citation' and 'Source Information':

Source Citation:
London Metropolitan Archives, Saint John the Baptist, Hoxton, Register of burials, P91/JNB, Item 079; Call Number: p91/jnb/079.
Source Information:
Ancestry.com. London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.

(2) For the FreeBMD Index just 'Source Information':

Source Information:
FreeBMD. England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2006. Original data: General Register Office. England and Wales Civil Registration Indexes. London, England: General Register Office.

So what I'm thinking is that for the Parish Register I create a Repository for LMA and then a create a New Source Record with Title 'Saint John the Baptist, Hoxton, Register of burials', Type 'Parish Register' , Custom ID ', P91/JNB, Item 079; Call Number: p91/jnb/079. and Publication Information 'Ancestry.com. London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 [database on-line]' .

And for the FreeBMD Index I'll create a new Repository 'General Register Office [GRO], Stockport' and a New Source Record with Title 'GRO Death Index', Publication Information 'FreeBMD. England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2006' and in 'Text from Source' the GRO reference infomation volume/page.

Does that sound like a sensible approach?

[As a side question what does "P91/JNB, Item 079; Call Number: p91/jnb/079" mean?]

[I haven't asked about how to record the Death Certificate as I've just bought "Where to record it in FH v5" by Wm Clegg and will follow his advice on recoding BMD Certificate information]

Sorry it's a bit longwinded but my New Year's Resolution was to be more disciplined about recording Sources in my family tree and I want to start off the right way!

Thanks in anticipation

There is a quite a lot to discuss, and others may add more, but here are some key points.

(1) The Parish Register entry is almost certainly a Source primarily for a Burial Event rather than a Death Event, although it may also give details of the death, and of course is evidence that the death occurred, so can act as a Source for the Death Event too.

(2) & (3) The GRO Index & Certificate are effectively the same Source for the Death Event as one is just an index to the other.

Your proposed Source Records are using what is popularly referred to as Method 2 and as such pose problems if you wish to record a Text From Source transcript and attach a Multimedia image for the source document. To use those features you would better advised to use Method 1 where the Source Record title identifies a specific document. If you do not understand the key features of Method 1 and Method 2 and when to use them then please ask.
See glossary:sources#sources_and_citations_-_how_to_use_them|> Sources and Citations - how to use them.

Ancestral Sources is to be updated to support Death and Burial events probably within the month, and would simplify entering both these sources (as well as Census, Baptism and Marriage).

I would advise against using "Where to record it in FH v5" by Wm Clegg as I understand it has misleading advice, and nobody knows anything about William Clegg, who is not a member of this FHUG under that name.
See Entry Date in citations.

tatewise wrote:
Your proposed Source Records are using what is popularly referred to as Method 2 and as such pose problems if you wish to record a Text From Source transcript and attach a Multimedia image for the source document. To use those features you would better advised to use Method 1 where the Source Record title identifies a specific document. If you do not understand the key features of Method 1 and Method 2 and when to use them then please ask.

Thank you for your helpful comments.

I haven't come across 'Method 1' and 'Method 2', can you post a link to somewhere that explains it?

See glossary:sources#sources_and_citations_-_how_to_use_them|> Sources and Citations - how to use them which also has further links.

Also the Help on Options within the Ancestral Sources program gives similar advice and examples.

If you do a Search for Method in the box top left then there are several Forum threads discussing Method 1 versus Method 2.

My contribution for the parish register entry:

This is primary evidence for the burial and - unless it quotes a death date, it's only indirect evidence for the death. (I usually use the burial date to estimate a death date.) Since FH doesn't have any coding for "indirect" evidence, I enter it as secondary evidence for the death.

The source record would look something like this:

Title: burial of John Doe, 12 April 1813; Register of Burials Mar 1843-Dec 1845
Author: St. John the Baptist (Hoxton, county-name)
Type: Parish Register; digital image
Publication Information: digital image in "London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 [database and images on-line]", Ancestry
Repository: Ancestry
Identification: Original register ref: London Metropolitan Archives P91/JNB/079

OK - there are a couple of things extra in there. This may upset some people but I tend to wander off into the online catalogues of the various Archhives and see what information I can get. See http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-t ... logue.aspx

Why might that upset some people? Because I'm not just taking it from the source on the screen. I'm adding a bit. And cross-checking Ancestry.

You asked: "As a side question what does "P91/JNB, Item 079; Call Number: p91/jnb/079" mean?" Well, part of what it means is that Ancestry's saying the same thing twice! P91/JNB/079 is the reference in the London Metropolitan Archives catalogue for the physical parish register in question.

P91/JNB is the reference for "Records of the parish of Saint John the Baptist, New North Road, Hoxton". (I don't know what P91 means!)
P91/JNB/079 is the reference for the Burial Register for Mar 1843-Dec 1845.

The catalogue tells us a bit about the church and the dates tell us this is (by my standards) a busy church.

To find all this, go to that catalogue and put various bits of the reference in.

So - how does this differ from yours? (And this is an art, not a science).

• I don't use a Repository of LMA - I didn't go there, I got the data off Ancestry, so that's what I'd put as the Repository. But LMA is important, because their catalogue gives us a unique reference for the register and tells us a bit about the church and the register.
• Because my repository isn't LMA but Ancestry, but I do want to use the LMA reference, I've expanded that Identification / Call item.
• I've shifted the name of the church into the author item.
• I added a bit to identify which register it is by the years. Not crucial. Just nice?
• My type reminds me this isn't just a PR, it's a digital version of a PR.
• I've not used a Custom Id.
• The publication data is expanded a bit to make it clear how the publication has been done.

There are other ways of doing it. Some might care to have (just showing the 2 changed lines):
Publication Information: digital image in "London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 [database and images on-line]", Ancestry, citing original register London Metropolitan Archives reference P91/JNB/079
Repository: Ancestry

This moves the identification of the register up into the Publication Information so it becomes not just publication information but describing the "source of the source". Personally I find that a bit busy but it does at least remove the oddity of the Repository being one thing while the Id mentions a second.

That's enough, I think!

Adrian's example is a Method 1 Source because it identifies the specific burial of John Doe 12 April 1813 P91/JNB/079.

Whereas you proposed a Method 2 Source of 'Saint John the Baptist, Hoxton, Register of burials' which covers all burials in that church register, so you cannot include a transcript or link an image to the Source Record because there could be too many of them.

Thanks for the replies, I feel much better informed now aboput the options I've got. And I've now discovered Ancestral Sources which I hadn't heard of before.